Why, Why, Why?

[Guest Grim Reaper]

The first of the former US navy ships at the centre of a legal and environmental row over their disposal has moored on the River Tees in north-east England.

The aging oil tanker Caloosahatchee was met by protesters near Able UK's Hartlepool yard on Wednesday afternoon.

The firm has been blocked from starting to dismantle the ship, and other vessels in the so-called "ghost fleet".

The government has said the Caloosahatchee and a sister ship can be stored temporarily on Teesside, but should be sent back to the US

What the hell is wrong with people........

People are crying out for jobs and work and therefore money, a gilt edged opportunity is sent our way to create some jobs and we turn around and chuck it right back.

Why, Why, Why????

[-pops-]

Misinformation fed by a media "frenzy".

Few people are in possession of the facts about these ships or if they are, they are choosing to ignore them and most of the comment, good or bad is merely speculation exaggerated by the sewer newspapers gasping for a sensational story.

Isn't is a case of the royals are "old hat" this week, let's give 'em a rest and attack something else that can't be written about in a reasoned and reasonable way?

Rest assured, there will be another ill informed scoop next week.

[Guest nellie2]

Because the ships are full of america's chemicals that they say are too dangerous for them but it is ok for us to dispose of them in our landfills??? I think not. The jobs are short term.......... If America allowed the import of our steel then we would still have the steel jobs wouldn't we

[Guest Grim Reaper]

Steel: America can produce its own so why would it need ours? The basic thing with the steel industry is the same as the coal, we can't compete, we are too greedy and want to make too much profit, the fat cats want too big a cut and the little man has to suffer ultimately with his job going........

The ships are full of chemicals yes...but if we have the expertise and capability to dispose of them and the yanks don't then we should go for it....short term or not, it is a job for someone who doesn't have one....and if a good job is done (as it always is by the brits) then more contracts could come our way and the short term job becomes a permenant one and the BRITISH economy benefits.....

instead the goody goody, know nothing, luvvy liberal protesters get their way once more! :angry:

[Guest ellas]

maybe they are crying out for jobs but I'm not happy about it coming to my region,surely a superpower like america can deal with there own rubbish,the uk is suppose to be the 3rd or 4th biggest economy in the world so why do we need to deal with other peoples crap.

[Guest Grim Reaper]

maybe they are crying out for jobs but I'm not happy about it coming to my region,surely a superpower like america can deal with there own rubbish,the uk is suppose to be the 3rd or 4th biggest economy in the world so why do we need to deal with other peoples crap.

ah...the nimby brigade are out in force too.......

yes we are in the G8 of top economies but will we really stay there by turning away good business....

one way of looking at it is dealing with other peoples crap but another way is to say hat we are boosting the local economy, creating jobs and securing the future of the dealing companies.....

[Guest ellas]

yeah whatever I dont see why america cant deal with its rubbish and I dont like it in my region,we are not that bad off in the northeast to have to take peoples crap,if you want it in yor region thats fair enough and I won't be making any more comments on this.

[Guest Grim Reaper]

my region is full of crap anyway so a little more probably wouldn't even get noticed!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Tankus]

Lets have all their radioactive waste as well ....bring it on ....! after all whats a few rads between friends if we can make a buck ...

Whats a few poisoned Geordie's matter anyway , we've plenty of spares......

[moon]

The ships are filthy with toxic wastes, so filthy that the Americans didn't know what to do with them. Along comes Santa, in the guise of a British businessman, who not only pays them £17m but does so knowing that he doesn't have the breakers permits to deal with them in the UK and that there is no suitable dry dock to carry out the work. That's his 'disposal expertise' in a nutshell, no permit, no dry dock, a sort of maritime diddycoy looking for a place to tip. The movement of the hulks is cunningly timed. Get them to the UK just before the weather makes it impossible to send them elsewhere.

The Americans are blameless in this and have every right, which I fully expect them to exercise, to refuse to allow them back into their waters. This British company epitomises the worst kind of British businessman.

[moon]

Blimey, I'll have to lighten up. Everybody's legged it. :D

[Tankus]

The Government yesterday hit back at environmental pressure groups for grossly exaggerating the dangers from old US navy vessels, as it changed its policy to allow two more of the "ghost ships", at present still at sea, to overwinter in Hartlepool.

Peter Mandelson, the local MP, accused the groups of "colossal misinformation" after personally inspecting the two ships that docked in the north-eastern port last week. And senior government sources pointed out that the ships - continually described as "toxic timebombs" by environmentalists - are in fact "no more toxic than the average car ferry".

Independent

If Salsa swinger Peter sez its ok by him ....then I totally believe they are safe too ...

Its not true that the US yards could not touch them (due to the excessive litigation and decontamination costs ) they were only brought over here to create employment , as a goodwill gesture from our friends

[Guest nellie2]

Its not true that the US yards could not touch them (due to the excessive litigation and decontamination  costs  ) they were only brought over here to create employment , as a goodwill gesture from our friends

Oh pull the other one.... it's got tinkley bells on!!!! What about the America First policy?? I suppose that only applies to nice clean employment opportunities.

America is closing it's trading borders, she is telling her industry to break trade agreements with the UK and the rest of the world and to trade internally. As long as the American economy is alright jack then bugger the rest of the world.

[Tankus]

I was taking the piss ,just a little bit , Nel ....!

[Guest Shirley_Crabtree]

maybe they are crying out for jobs but I'm not happy about it coming to my region,surely a superpower like america can deal with there own rubbish,the uk is suppose to be the 3rd or 4th biggest economy in the world so why do we need to deal with other peoples crap.

ah...the nimby brigade are out in force too.......

yes we are in the G8 of top economies but will we really stay there by turning away good business....

one way of looking at it is dealing with other peoples crap but another way is to say hat we are boosting the local economy, creating jobs and securing the future of the dealing companies.....

Crikey!!!

So you'd be happy if a ship full of asbestos and all sorts of other toxic waste was to be broken up in your area..Not knowing what will happen to the toxic elements that are removed...

Everyone has a right to be a Nimby...but you choose to poke fun at them. GROW UP,do you have kids?...Kids who could be at risk of asbestosis if they decide to play on a landfill site that UNDOUBTABLY would be unmarked/unkempt.

I can just imagine a dodgy geordie sorting a deal to get rid of the waste,then just fly tipping the lot to cut costs.

The yanks should sort out their own crap..We don't need it here.

(This is not a slur on Geordie folks..I have friends and relatives who are geordies)

[Guest Grim Reaper]

Crikey!!!

So you'd be happy if a ship full of asbestos and all sorts of other toxic waste was to be broken up in your area..Not knowing what will happen to the toxic elements that are removed...

Everyone has a right to be a Nimby...but you choose to poke fun at them. GROW UP,do you have kids?...Kids who could be at risk of asbestosis if they decide to play on a landfill site that UNDOUBTABLY would be unmarked/unkempt.

I can just imagine a dodgy geordie sorting a deal to get rid of the waste,then just fly tipping the lot to cut costs.

The yanks should sort out their own crap..We don't need it here.

(This is not a slur on Geordie folks..I have friends and relatives who are geordies)

if a reputable company with tried and tested methods of waste removal won a contract then no, i would not be out campaigning.

I do have kids, and lets be honest, would any proper comany really fly tip the asbestos that was being so carefully watched by the NIMBY brigade???

[Guest ellas]

well if you had see our local news you would have seen the americans over the moon at getting rid of there waste,THEY described them as a time bomb waiting to happen,my point is that each nation should get rid of there own rubbish and sadly we fall down here because where do we send our ghost fleet to,not hartlepool but india.shame on us.lordy you seem to be missing my point its about each country looking after its own rubbish,have a read of the following

Two former US Navy ships are now crossing the Atlantic for scrapping in the UK. Contaminated with toxic waste, the failure of the US to clean them up at home has caused outrage in Europe. But have a closer look at the issue of shipbreaking: putting toxic vessels out of sight and out of mind is the rule rather than the exception -- and the recipients are usually developing countries.

The "Canisteo" and "Caloosahatchee" were both built in 1945. They are contaminated with banned, cancer-causing polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs), asbestos, and marine diesel oil. They are part of a fleet that was to be towed across the Atlantic in stages to a UK dry dock in Teeside for dismantling. The ships have been laid up for years on the James River, subject to a ban laid down during the Clinton Administration which took a strict interpretation of international law on exporting toxic waste from the US. The Bush administration took a different view.

The export of these ships has met criticism on both sides of the Atlantic, and sparked deep concerns that the US is simply testing the waters of opposition. The disposal of the 'ghost fleet' is a pilot project: if the export of these vessels is not challenged, more rusting old ships will leave the US with cocktails of hazardous substances still on board. Their destiny could be the UK, but could just as well be India, Bangladesh, China, Pakistan or Turkey.

Toxic? Send it far, far away.

Belatedly, the tow ships have now been denied permission to dock by the UK environment agency. The decision adds to the pressure that shipowners, including the US government, should be cleaning up ships before they are exported for breaking. Every year 600 ships like these are exported to Asian countries for breaking without proper decontamination.

The future of these two former US navy ships is now unclear. Local outrage, increasing media coverage and pressure from activists have forced UK authorities to look closer at plans for scrapping what the EU classes as hazardous waste.

It is unacceptable that the US is allowed to dump its toxic waste on the UK, despite the fact that the actual conditions under which the ships will be scrapped are far more advanced those which are employed on the majority of ships. The unfortunate irony is that this example has provoked protests and a government reaction, but there is little outrage that the UK and other nations send hundreds of similar ships every year to the Indian subcontinent for scrapping. That practice goes largely unnoticed and unregulated.

These ships should never have been sent to the UK for disposal. We oppose the export/import of hazardous materials for disposal and believe that hazardous materials should be dealt with in the country of origin, as long as suitable facilities can be provided to ensure safe disposal. The US Maritime Administration's ships clearly contain hazardous materials and the US is clearly a country that is capable of dealing with its own waste.

The UK government should now act to ensure that no further ships are sent from the US to the UK. Secondly they should urgently determine what is the best environmental solution for dealing with the ships that have already arrived.

Millions of dollars, thousands of lives.

After 25-30 years, many ships are at the end of their sailing life. These ships are sold and dismantled to recover valuable steel. But the ships also contain large amounts of hazardous materials. In the 1970s shipbreaking was concentrated in Europe. Performed at docks, it was a highly mechanised industrial operation. But the costs of upholding environmental, health and safety standards increased and the industry moved to poorer Asian states. Once-pristine beaches of India, Bangladesh, China, Pakistan and Turkey are now littered with ships and pollution. Workers there scrap the ships without any protection. Oil, PCBs and other wastes are dumped in the sea. Workers remove deadly asbestos by hand. Only the ship owners' profit from the lack of safety and environmental safe guards. They extract an average US$ 1.9m profit per ship. In India alone, one worker a day, on average, dies in the shipbreaking industry.

This the reality for the vast majority of old ships from the UK and other developed states - the toxic waste is dumped on Asia. The sight of an old, toxic rust-bucket approaching a rich country's shores has raised alarm bells -- but the same governments turn a blind eye if they head to far-off Asian shores.

We are campaigning to change this. International law states that hazardous waste must be disposed of in the country of origin and not dumped in other countries. The breaking of ships in Asia is toxic dumping in disguise -- but countries such as the UK and US are happy to ignore international law because it suits their shipping industries. The US has not even signed the relevant convention.

All ships being sold for scrap must be cleaned of hazardous material before being sold. This ensures the country that created the pollution has to clean it up. It also provides an incentive for countries to buy cleaner ships which require less cleaning before scrapping in the future. The UK should not need to clean up waste from the US but workers and the environment in countries like India, Bangladesh and China shouldn't have to deal with waste from rich countries either.

[Tankus]

Independant

Environmentalists yesterday tacitly admitted defeat in their campaign to stop four contaminated "ghost ships" being scrapped in Britain.

In an abrupt U-turn, Friends of the Earth, which led the campaign and was "exploring legal avenues to force the Government to send the boats back", said the best solution was now likely to be the scrapping of the US ships in Britain.

Peter Mandelson, the MP for Hartlepool, the site of the planned dismantlement, had been embroiled in a battle with FoE over the obsolete vessels. He welcomed the change, saying it made "sense to have the ships dismantled in a "properly controlled" way.

Not a surprise that the grubby little salsa dancer has been in on it .

I wonder what the going rate for mooring fee's are...?

"best solution" for whom ....?

[moon]

What a sickener. I hope Mandy gets his overalls on.

[Tankus]

This in the Baltimore Sun It s a bit old but worth a read from the US standpoint..

WASHINGTON, U.S.A., 11 June 2000 -- Key legislators agree contaminated vessels must be scrapped soon. A consensus has emerged among key lawmakers that they need to move quickly to dispose of aging U.S. ships that threaten to leach toxic PCBs, asbestos and lead-based paint into the waterways where they are moored.

But a divide remains over whether the contaminated vessels should be dismantled in the United States, at a significant cost to taxpayers, or abroad, where lower safety standards would allow the U.S. Maritime Administration to turn a profit by selling the ships for scrap.

Looks like they found the mugs with lower standards to do it

Possibly good news

Independent

[Guest ellas]

I'm surprised we did not divert them to india to make a profit by paying them pennies.