A3 Laser Colour Printer (FAST RESPONSE NEEDED)

[grim_reefer]

fast response needed here please!..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...item=3478365047

is this a good deal? is it worth it? if it had a malfunction - would it be easily repaired by a technician? thanks for any help

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...item=3478476559

same with this

there is not long left to bid i could get in there at the last minute on both..

i need to be printing HIGH quality laser colour on A3 paper - and at a reasonable rate (pages-per-minute, or whatever)

thank you

[-pops-]

Just had a word with my son about this. He's in the graphics business.

His opinion is AVOID. The machines will most likely have been hammered into the ground with little respect for them when in use.

He also asks if you have enough space to keep them - miniature they are not!!

Lastly, do you really have a need for them? A3 printers are not for everyday use for most people, A3 colour laser printers even less. If you want an occasional A3 colour print, he says go to a printshop. You will be able to get plenty for the outlay on these things.

[grim_reefer]

it is for business purposes and will in no-way be for "occasional" printing

im aware they wont be in perfect condition, but so far the cheapest new machine ive seen was £1800.. so even buying at £200 - you could get through 9 before even reaching the cost of one new printer

and we do have space for them

im mostly interested in the speed of printing, quality of printing, and how cheaply/costly or easy/difficult they are fixed by a technician when they malfunction.. ( i.e. if parts are expensive or hard to get, or shipped from abroad :huh: )

[-pops-]

From your response it appears that you have answered your own question.

If you are fully aware of the risks - and there will be a strong case of caveat emptor here - then go ahead but, I still question the need to have one. If your business purposes have a real requirement for an A3 colour laser printer then there would be one installed already.

Remember also your obligation to your customers who will not be happy having to wait for a dinosaur machine being repaired - a repair that may take a long time.

[grim_reefer]

i have added something to my last post BTW

yes i am aware of the risks, and we would purchase AT LEAST two

our business will have a need for them, but doesnt currently because we are just starting up, in the process of planning and taking the first steps

[-pops-]

OK, had another word about your additional info.

The question now is: do you know anything about the state of the drum? This is the most vulnerable part of the machine and is not everlasting however carefully it is treated. It is also the part responsible for the quality of the output.

Check on the availability of spares and consumables (drums, fuser oil if used, toner) and the prices. As these machine don't look to be "mainstream" brands it may be a problem obtaining parts on the open market.

[grim_reefer]

thanks for all the help pops.. i will look into them things

[grim_reefer]

not about the printer, but is Adobe Photoshop ("Bundle" with Photoshop, Photoshop Elements (album software), and ImageReady) the best way to go for photography manipulation and editing?.. e.g. to make professionally-presented photographs of products which may or may not include a person in them

photoshop

[grim_reefer]

why am i finding three different colour toners for the printer ?? one for each primary colour

surely the printer cannot take all three toners at once? or have to pay like £900 to get all three :huh: shouldnt there be a all colours-in-one??? like with printer cartridges

[Besty]

I liked photoshop when i had it if it helps

[-pops-]

Hello again!

My son is staying the weekend so when he gets up I'll ask him to respond to your questions.

Meanwhile, I know that there are two graphics manipulating programs that the professionals use: Adobe Photoshop and Paintshop Pro (PSP).

Photoshop is very expensive but very comprehensive. PSP is quite a lot cheaper and has almost the same facilities as the Adobe product. In my son's studio he has people using both items - it's a matter of choice which one is favourite. It was possible to download a trial version of Photoshop from the Adobe website - have a search around there to see if they still do it. PSP costs less than £100 so you don't lose much from buy and try with that one.

EDIT. Have a look at tryouts and scroll down the page :)

[Smiffy99]

why am i finding three different colour toners for the printer ?? one for each primary colour

surely the printer cannot take all three toners at once? or have to pay like £900 to get all three  :huh:  shouldnt there be a all colours-in-one??? like with printer cartridges

I suggest that you tread with extreme caution. The fact that you were unaware of the fact that most if not all colour laser printers require seperate toner drums and the cost of these would seem to suggest thqat you have not done your research (no offence, but it is simply the way these things work).

OK, so say you win the auction for both at £200(ish) PLUS the £1800 for the toner etc (for both) and you may just as well be looking at a brand new Brother HL-3450CN A3 printer with warranty and all toners etc for £2300

Add to this the fact that you would get tax allowance on the depreciation etc and can rely on the thing..........

[Sir Radfordin]

I used to work somewhere that had a HP laser colour printer/photocopier and that had 4 different toners (like the Epson's that have individual ink carts) each one costing £100+. The HOD decided we had to have 2 of each in stock at all times...and then wondered why the department was over budget!

These things aren't cheap to run unless you have very specific requirements. Large print runs are better done by a professional printers, small print runs may as well be done on a good inkjet.

[grim_reefer]

The fact that you were unaware of the fact that most if not all colour laser printers require seperate toner drums and the cost of these would seem to suggest thqat you have not done your research (no offence, but it is simply the way these things work).

yes i know that, maybe thats why i was asking here?! lol i can only find out things as quickly as i discover them - and yeah after posting that, i DID realise thats how these work - but ive never had or seen a colour laserjet before, so i didnt know :huh: it would have been better if i did, i know that

i hadnt researched properly before bein intereseted in the product for sale because it was a snap-decision...

nonetheless - i have found toners for £150ish... which would make it £350 for all three colours - surely with them, black is not strictly necessary?! although i assume it will make the colours last that bit longer

i guess my main interest in just how many pages these £150 toners will print before their inks all used up ? does anyone have a rough idea - because affording it is not a problem really - as long as their is a worthy amount of printing that can be done

thanks again for any help so far, and any help forthcoming

[Agent Smith]

Hi Grim, a couple of things, first, you may find that the printer will not function with either a missing or empty black cartridge, so I think you are going to have to get one of those.

Second, I cannot comment for the printer you are looking at, but I assume you have found a source for remanufactured cartridges (based on the price you quoted above). I use remans on a HP 4550 colour A4 laser, and I tend to have to replace the cartridges after about 3000 pages.

Mr. M.

[-pops-]

Hello.

Not -pops- but Eric - a junior -pops- (popette?)

I think it's all been said now about the situation with colour laser printers. Yes they are expensive. Yes they are expensive to maintain. Yes they are expensive to replace colour units, drums and othe expendible bits but, they are very cheap per print and you should be able to get many thousands of pages from one set of toner cartridges.

Like Dad said yesterday, if you have a large number of prints to do, you would be better off going to a printshop. If there is only a few, print with inkjet. If you have a VERY large number, go to a professional printer and have it done on a commercial basis using traditional printing methods.

Good luck

Eric :)

[grim_reefer]

thanks eric and mr. m :)

at the end of the day - we will need one of these eventually, but some of the comments have made me consider it may be better to start with A4

but id still want colour laserjet because speed and cost to print are important

i realise a professional printers may be cheaper for smaller quantities but if its on a large scale, i mean the kind of quantity a small professional printers may be turning out, then surely it still wouldnt be cheaper going to them ? :huh: after all they need to make a profit themselves..

[grim_reefer]

a quick question - approximately how many pages of colour does a inkjet cartridge print???

[Agent Smith]

but some of the comments have made me consider it may be better to start with A4

but id still want colour laserjet because speed and cost to print are important

How about something like the Xerox phasers?

We recently (10 months ago) bought an 8200 solid color printer, which has been replaced by the 8400 Xerox Web 8400

These print colour at up to 24 ppm, and if used as a general office printer, work out quite cheap to run. The one we have, is costing about 8 pence for a full colour A4 print, and about 1.5 pence for black text. Admittedly slightly dearer than a laserjet, but the colour quality is exceptional.

Only thing to remember, is to never turn them off, or it will cost you a fortune (the wax goes hard and the print nozzles need to be purged, using about 50 pages worth of ink).

Mr. M.

[-pops-]

Eric again!

Depends on what you define as large scale.

Anything up to 1000 pages of A3 we print ourselves. 1000 - 5000 we will consider printing ourselves depending on our customer (if someone important, definitely ourselves so we can QC every print). Over 5000 we contract outside to be printed by more traditional methods - even though these are now computer controlled and highly sophisicated, the actual printing process is as it was 25, or more, years ago. These work out to be very low cost and high quality.

If we are printing millions of copies then there's no question of it being outside contractors as we could not possibly cope with the size and the space necessary to do it. Costs then per copy are very low indeed and can be a tiny fraction of a penny for full colour (CYMK) high quality litho one sheet DS printed brochures.

[grim_reefer]

a quick question - approximately how many pages of colour does a inkjet cartridge print???

sorry for posting that particular question again, but i dont want it overlooked lol..

the fraction of a penny per sheet you mentioned is with a professional printers (for quantities like a million) right? im quite interested in the prices they charge for different quantities

[-pops-]

How many pages will an inkjet cartridge print?

How long is a piece of goo?

There are so many variables - the amount of cover of ink, depth of colour, size of cartridge ) Lexmark tend to print less than Xerox which print less than HP and so on and it all depends on the model of printer and the size of cartridge etc., etc. The figures given by printer manufacturers are very misleading as they assume something like 5% cover on a sheet - on a photograph this is ludicrous.

If you are looking at large scale inkjet printing, don't even consider the printers sold for SOHO use, go the the manuf. website and look at their professional ranges. Likewise with laser printers. If you're serious about buying a large printer, enquire of the maker and they will arrange a demo either in their showroom, at a printshop or printers close to you or (if the printer is not too large) at your premises.

Pro inkjet printing, although relatively expensive, is very much cheaper than small scale SOHO printing.

Regarding large scale costing. Again it is very variable. Are you taking a print ready disk, or do you want the printer to do that? If the latter, it will put the initial costs up a lot. What print process do you want to use? Again there are so many variables depending on your requirements and end result. If I was (for example) doing work for M&S the quality requirements would be higher than otherwise identical work for Morrisons and if I was doing the same work (different wording :) ) for Mercedes cars the quality requirements and cost would be higher than either of the previous examples.

If you want to take this seriously, can I suggest that you enquire at your local colleges for a printing course. These will teach you the basics and also put you in touch with your local printing companies who, wanting your business, will be only too happy to help all they can. With the printers on your side you are well on the way to making it all work.

Please note that the above companies are used as examples only and do not infer that I do work, or have worked, for them.

€d

[grim_reefer]

thanks again :D im glad ive found someone who knows where i am coming from with all this, points you've just made are very relevant to our plans. thanx

as far as doing a course, its not that i want to learn printing as a trade - but it will be a key element in this particular business idea... im sure it would assist a great deal - but its something ill have to look in to..

as for inquring about inkject cartridges and the amount of pages they print .. i knew it was variable like that - and my parents' business's cartridges always run out of just one colour (red) and yet it still has to be replaced - and some last longer than others.. and when she is priting her personal (non-business) photos, this rinses through her ink too. anyway, that is not important because that is a different business and they dont need a printer lol ......laserjet is generally cheapest way to print isnt it?? (except for initial costs to purchase), cost per printing each page? so i think that will be the way to go, plus for speed and quality...

[-pops-]

Yep. Laser printing is the cheapest for small/medium runs - ignoring the initial outlay of course :)

[grim_reefer]

unfortunately, we have been outbid :(

we said we wouldnt intend go over £200, but consider up to £250.. well someone placed ONE bid but there is no way to no someones maximum bid - you just have to keep bidding higher 'til you exceed their maximum bid.. so we said we would go to £265 and leave it at that if we still wasnt highest.. alas, we wasnt

and it looks like that bidder will get it for £270 - he only bidded once and when his bid started it was less £200 - but no-ones gone over the maximum bid he entered (whatever that may have been)

im sure another will come along though in no time - and we have other elements of the business to be foxusing on..