Are all ISPs as good as ONETEL

[catgate]

We have just been to der Vaterland fur ein tag or two. When we came back (Sat. a.m.) we found that the internet connection was dead. Well....to make a long story even longer, it was all down to Onetel greed and stupidity. When I got my March bill I thought "By 'ecky thump that's ower much!" and when I sorted it out they had included Feb.'s bill amount (that apparently had not been paid) and a £5 "late payment charge" to punish me for not paying up on time.

I looked through my check book and filing system and sure enough it had not been paid...for a very good reason. Yep, I never got it!!! So...I sent them a letter with my cheque for the full amount, less £5, and explained I had no intention of paying them £5 because of their, or the Post Office's, failings, and pointing out that it was not a late payment...it was a non-payment that they had not received.

I also sent an email to their customer service mob explaining the situation. I then got the ubiquitous P*ki maiden the same afternoon, asking about my account. So she too got the explanation.

When we returned (Sat. a.m.) from our trip there was my April bill waiting....with the unpaid £5 carried over. So I writ another note and a cheque (less £5) and sent it on its way. During the afternoon I tried to go on line, to send Onetel an email, but could not, even though there was a dialling tone on the 'phone line. I just put it down to a hiccup at the other end. The following day it was the same, but when I tried to 'phone I was transported directly to Onetel, where a disembodied bimbo, sounding to be somewhere in outer space, told me they wished to discuss my account and would I "press 1 now". I did and was told the "office is now closed" but I could "take advantage of their automated services by pressing 1 for ****, 2 for ****"etc.

I sat down and writ a letter to Sir Roy Gardner, who is der Obergruppen Fuhrer von Centrica, pointing out several pertinent matters.

This morning I managed to get through to a real live person, who was yet another P*ki maiden (this time only as far away as the moon) and, what do you know, she was aware of my letter and/or email of last month. She agreed that it was a bit over the top and said she would credit my account with £5 and I would be back on line with the hour (which I was).

I have a feeling it is all a bit of a scam, but can it be proved? And if it can who would do anything about it...other than copy it?

I await the response of Sir Roy with interest. The last time I had need to communicate with him was about 12 months ago, regarding the non-existent internal communication system within Onetel, and he came up trumps. I got some very rapid communication following that. :blink:

[andsome]

Why not pay by direct debit?

[catgate]

Why not pay by direct debit?

1) I do not have sufficient money for me to open my wallet, to any Tom, d*** or Harry, and say." Here, help yourself." How many people do you know who are not over-charged by "Utilities" using the Direct Debit system combined with "estimated" meter readings, so that they (the Utilities) can hold money, not belonging to them, in order to draw interest on it, prior to eventually "repaying" the overcharge. I have several friends and aquaintances who regularly complain about this....but strangely seem to continue to use it.....odd methinks. In fact one of them looks upon it as a kind of piggy bank.

2) The purpose of Direct Debit (prior to the Utiities finding the above scam) was improve profitability by cutting down the number of people employed. Now, if you are a big fan of creating unemployment, you go ahead. Personally I would much prefer people to be in employment, earning their own living, instead of having the Clown Prince of Westminster taking tax out of my pension to keep them.

[andsome]

I have truly never had a problem with direct debits. Regarding meter readings etc, if I get an estimated bill that is way out, I e-mail my correct meter reading. Direct debit is an excellent way of evening out seasonal variations in payments, such as fuel. In any case I now buy both gas and electricity from London Energy through an online account. Get with it.

[AlanHo]

I have truly never had a problem with direct debits.  Regarding meter readings etc, if I get an estimated bill that is way out, I e-mail my correct meter reading.  Direct debit is an excellent way of evening out seasonal variations in payments, such as fuel.  In any case I now buy both gas and electricity from London Energy through an online account.  Get with it.

Have you looked at StayWarm for geriatric energy supplies. They save me about £30 per month compared with Brit Gas. London Energy cannot compete in my case.

I too pay all possible bills by direct debit and have yet to have a problem - (bet I will now I've boasted about it).

[andsome]

I was with Staywarm for several years. We have a very efficient gas boiler, and when Staywarm increased our payments yet again, I looked online and posted my annual usage. London Energy came out tops for my usage. My neighbour who has a thirty five year old boiler, on the other hand uses that much gas, that staywarm are still cheaper for his usage. I am currently paying over £100 less per annum than he is for both fuels combined.

[AlanHo]

I was with Staywarm for several years.  We have a very efficient gas boiler, and when Staywarm increased our payments yet again, I looked online and posted my annual usage.  London Energy came out tops for my usage.  My neighbour who has a thirty five year old boiler, on the other hand uses that much gas, that staywarm are still cheaper for his usage.  I am currently paying over £100 less per annum than he is for both fuels combined.

That's not a nice comment about your neighbour's wife

[catgate]

Regarding meter readings etc, if I get an estimated bill that is way out, I e-mail my correct meter reading.

So you are quite happy to do the work of the meter reader in order to put someone out of work????

Direct debit is an excellent way of evening out seasonal variations in payments, such as fuel

So you are quite happy to use the greed of the big utilities to your own advantage, whilst they create unemployment and ship desk jobs overseas???

It all sits very oddly with you view on fairplay and rectitude.

As far as "getting with it" is concerned, if this involves putting people out of work so that I can pay more tax, then I think I am probably better off without it.

The experiences I have had over the last few years (one of which, with npower, is still going on, after eighteen months, and they have still failed to sort it out, even after I invoked the aid of their CEO) tell me that anyone who is prepared to assume all is well, is living in cloud cuckoo land.

[andsome]

I am not doing the meter reader out of work. He only calls once a year, as the meter HAS to be read once a year, they will not accept my reading for that. As regards the other readings that I provide, they accept these as a replacement for an estimated reading for the three quarters involved, and can adjust my payments if necessary.

I don't see where greed comes into the equation. I happen to find direct debit very convenient. People are still employed in sending me bills, I just don't have to go to the bother of paying them with all the inconvenience and time involved. As I said with fuel in particular, it also evens out my payments, thereby avoiding crippling bills in the winter quarters.

[catgate]

I am not doing the meter reader out of work. He only calls once a year

You must remember the time, really not long ago, when there were four times as many meter readers. They needed them to read the meter at the end of each quarter. Someone has made three of them redundant!! Not you I hope.

as the meter HAS to be read once a year

You must remember the time when it HAD to be read twice a year. Getting the law changed gave more scope for "manipulation".

I happen to find direct debit very convenient. People are still employed in sending me bills, I just don't have to go to the bother of paying them with all the inconvenience and time involved. As I said with fuel in particular, it also evens out my payments, thereby avoiding crippling bills in the winter quarters.

So you too have taken their bait. If you were to put into an interest paying bank account, each month/quarter, the amount of money you pay to the greed merchant by direct debit you would avoid crippling bills in winter and you would have earned yourself a little interest too (instead of them).

As far as greed is concerned, have you ever gone into the accuracy of the meters. I got involved with gas meters a few years ago because I felt that we were being "done". (It was before we moved over here, and we were on mains as opposed to our current tank). The legal acceptable level of accuracy is between plus and minus 5%. This was set in the days of using pigs bladders as bellows. This day and age gas flow measurement can, and for the prevention of Flixborough type events must, be measured very accurately indeed. But it is cheaper to produced meters with poor accuracy and it is then possible to argue the case for less stringent supply regulations. It is also then possible to have meters made to tighter tolerances, say plus or minus 2% and then set the meter to read 3% high. This will still keep within +/- 5% and show a nice "bonus". No I,m not accusing anyone of doing it...but you never know...do you.

People are still employed in sending me bills

It is all done by machine

I just don't have to go to the bother of paying them with all the inconvenience and time involved

This is part of living and being in the real world. Although I can understand the enormous time and effort that goes into paying, sometimes as many as three, bills every quarter and the rates once a year too.

[catgate]

I know we have got well of my original post, but just to keep the pot boiling I felt that I should add the following (which will not be altogether new to some).

The only cost in the production and marketing of any "product" is labour. In fact there is no other cost, anywhere, other than labour. What about the manufacturing machinery and the raw materials and the power and the wagons and building the shops and factories etc. etc. ? Well, raw material itself cost nothing. The cost is in the labour of getting the iron ore out of the ground. Similarly the cost of coal and oil is nothing other than getting it up to the surface. The cost of all raw materials is the same, purely the labour of getting it. There is certainly machinery used in the getting, but that machinery like all machinery was once raw material, and has been transformed, through labour, into a finished product. All production machinery and tools, for whatever industry or business is nothing other than the sum of labour acting upon the raw materials used in their manufacture. An addition layer of labour costs is added by each of the white collar inputs. Designers, supervisors, accountants, sales and marketing, even the canteen ladies. In fact everything that the accountants like to call "overheads". So the old idea of splitting production costs into "raw materials/labour/overheads" is nothing but a convenience for hypnosis and we are left with the inescapable fact that all cost is labour. The same is obviously true of services, be they solicitor, window cleaner, beautician, doctor etc. Based on this it is obvious that for one supplier of energy to supply at a cheaper price that its competitors it is necessary for it to cut out labour (or else...heaven forbid...make less profit!!). In that the wholesale supply and distribution of both gas and electricity are virtually monopolistic, each retail supplier is only acting as a chanel, to funnel money between the user and the producer (taking out a handful as it passes by), it follows that it is a competition as to who can make the most people redundant.