andsome Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 There have been several threads and many postings on this forum, concerning the way this government runs the NHS. Doesn't this latest news just about take the biscuit, even by this lots terrible standards to date? Even as nurses are being sacked in their hundreds, the government admits that in a few short years there will be a huge shortage. Just how the hell do they manage to get things so messed up? Consultants are also being trained at great cost with no hope of employment in the future. Are we really surprised, given the governments track record to date?BBC News Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catgate Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 There will be no problem at all. It is all part of a privatisation by the back door plan. Any shortages will be more than made up for by low-pay-more-profit immigrant labour. By the end of the four years there will have been many more PFI built hospitals given over into private hands (because the NHS can not keep up the HP payments on them). Viva Tony...Viva Patsy I suspect she me turn out to be a Patsy in Mafia terminology, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thos Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 I know a different way of looking at this sort of report will not appeal to some members, but surely it is necessary to look at the future structure in order to try to change the way things are projected to go. I am aware that "planners" are on a par with estate agents in people's estimation, but planning ahead has to be done. Looking to the future means that changes can be made. Of course, when this sort of thinking is made public there is reaction. But it has to be done.Thos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catgate Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 ....but planning ahead has to be done. Looking to the future means that changes can be made. Thos.It seems to me that planning has been done. The plan however seems to be to privatise all and everything, to an even greater degree than the Blessed Maggie could ever have thought feasable,.....but by the back door. When it comes down to privatising all military training, as it has done, I think the message is pretty clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andsome Posted January 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 What kind of planning is it that causes nurses to be sacked now in droves, but forecasts a shortage in a very few years time, and spends money on training consultants that cannot be employed after their training due to lack of funds? This bunch couldn't plan the proverbial p*** up in a brewery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catgate Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 What kind of planning is it that causes nurses to be sacked now in droves, but forecasts a shortage in a very few years time, and spends money on training consultants that cannot be employed after their training due to lack of funds?The sort of planning that makes sure that there will be a supply of cheap trained labour for their friends in "the private sector" when the private sector have got their hands on the hospitals and are looking for staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andsome Posted January 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 What kind of planning is it that causes nurses to be sacked now in droves, but forecasts a shortage in a very few years time, and spends money on training consultants that cannot be employed after their training due to lack of funds?The sort of planning that makes sure that there will be a supply of cheap trained labour for their friends in "the private sector" when the private sector have got their hands on the hospitals and are looking for staff.Probably right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thos Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 What kind of planning is it that causes nurses to be sacked now in droves, but forecasts a shortage in a very few years time, and spends money on training consultants that cannot be employed after their training due to lack of funds? This bunch couldn't plan the proverbial p*** up in a brewery. The paper which was quoted was a planning paper at it's very early stages designed to highlight ideas to put right problems which may be showing themselves and invite other ideas. The people you call "this bunch" probably haven't even seen the paper at this stage. Intemperate rants are not the way forward.Thos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andsome Posted January 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 There is a CLEAR prediction of a short fall in both nurses and doctors, and yet these sackings are still going on. How on earth is any potential nurse to have faith in undertaking training with this yo yo attitude? I know that you have always stuck up for the government no matter what, but this news now just has to be the last straw in their unwinding of the NHS. WHY are they sacking nurses, even as they are predicting a shortage almost immediately. I just cannot for the life of me understand how you can still not accept the damage that the government are doing. I cannot but help compare it with the faithful dog who keeps coming back to the cruel master who kicks it time and time again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thos Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 There is a CLEAR prediction of a short fall in both nurses and doctors, and yet these sackings are still going on. How on earth is any potential nurse to have faith in undertaking training with this yo yo attitude? I know that you have always stuck up for the government no matter what, but this news now just has to be the last straw in their unwinding of the NHS. WHY are they sacking nurses, even as they are predicting a shortage almost immediately. I just cannot for the life of me understand how you can still not accept the damage that the government are doing. I cannot but help compare it with the faithful dog who keeps coming back to the cruel master who kicks it time and time again.It seems that no matter how many times I say it, you will never get the point. Nevertheless, I will say it again. In deciding where to put my cross on the ballot paper I come to a conclusion about which of the parties' policies come closest to my own aspirations. The thrust of the Labour party is nearest to my beliefs. That is not to say every policy and action in or out of government accords with my view, however. It would be stupid even to imagine it.As far as the planning paper is concerned, maybe, andsome, you should read again my previous post.Thos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andsome Posted January 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 The whole point is that not long ago, in response to criticism, the government BOASTED about the number of doctors, consultants and nurses undergoing training. Now these same nurses are loosing jobs so fast that a hemorrhage has now become a floodgate, and now the government is actually admitting that there will be a vast shortage of nurses VERY soon. The number of doctors and consultants that the government BOASTED about training are now potentially facing NON employment. SOME PLANNING THIS LOT IS. It's the same old story of policy decisions on the hoof, time and time again.Our local cottage hospital which was given to the community many many years ago by the local miners is closing for good this coming Monday and so is the Victoria Hospital in Lichfield. Both are still good sound buildings and still serve the community well, but the sites are being sold at huge cost for housing. As fast as the government throws money away in one direction, they have to get it back by selling hospital sites. The new Lichfield hospital will have less beds than the old Victoria, without taking into account the number lost at the Hammerwich cottage hospital. The consultant who I had to see at Hammerwich earlier this week said what backward steps these closures are, together wih hundreds more all over the country. Both hospitals which are closing offered ample FREE parking, the new one will charge £4. Catgate has probably hit the nail on the head. I wonder how many shares in private hospitals government ministers are holding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catgate Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 Our local cottage hospital which was given to the community many many years ago by the local miners is closing for good this coming Monday and so is the Victoria Hospital in Lichfield. Both are still good sound buildings and still serve the community well, but the sites are being sold at huge cost for housing. As fast as the government throws money away in one direction, they have to get it back by selling hospital sites. The new Lichfield hospital will have less beds than the old Victoria, without taking into account the number lost at the Hammerwich cottage hospital.It is scortched earth policy as far as I can see. The planning may not be done by the dunderheads who pretend to be incharge and call themselves ministers. I think it is done by the consultants that they bring in (at great cost), who then get positions as government "advisors" (now on the payroll at great cost) who act as facilitators and procurers. Once the scheme is set up and rolling they then jump ship and join the company that is getting the business, as a director (at great remuneration).I have just seen an interesting statistic:- Last year the net NHS deficit was £500m. Last year the spending by NHS on management consultants was £600m.It makes you think...dun it?I saw another interesting statistic yesterday.The loonies are going to "pay" the post GCSE students £30 per week to stay on at school. This will affect about 400,000 pupils. It did not say if they would get paid for holidays...but I suppose with human rights etc. no one will dare say "No". Which ever way you calculate it app.£600m is not an insignificant sum.What the hell... it's only money...our money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thos Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 The whole point is that not long ago,No, sir. The "whole point" that I am referring to is your personal attack on me by referring to "a faithful dog" etc. As long as you talk like that the rest of your diatribe does not merit a response.Thos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thos Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 [it is scortched earth policy as far as I can see. The planning may not be done by the dunderheads who pretend to be incharge and call themselves ministers. I think it is done by the consultants that they bring in (at great cost), who then get positions as government "advisors" (now on the payroll at great cost) who act as facilitators and procurers. Once the scheme is set up and rolling they then jump ship and join the company that is getting the business, as a director (at great remuneration).I have just seen an interesting statistic:- Last year the net NHS deficit was £500m. Last year the spending by NHS on management consultants was £600m.It makes you think...dun it?I saw another interesting statistic yesterday.The loonies are going to "pay" the post GCSE students £30 per week to stay on at school. This will affect about 400,000 pupils. It did not say if they would get paid for holidays...but I suppose with human rights etc. no one will dare say "No". Which ever way you calculate it app.£600m is not an insignificant sum.What the hell... it's only money...our money.Sorry, catgate, your comments really do deserve a response.I generally agree with your point about the widespread use of mamagement consultants. I believe that that sort of exercise should be done in house by people who know their subject. There used to be Organisation and Methods staff (O&M) who could get to the nub of a problem and, properly backed, could produce proposals for solutions. However, they got mixed up with "time & motion" and were discredited. Now vast sums are paid to outsiders with little real result.Students should be encouraged to get further education, but their "payment" would be better jobs and lifestyle. Cash----never.Thos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andsome Posted January 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 The whole point is that not long ago,No, sir. The "whole point" that I am referring to is your personal attack on me by referring to "a faithful dog" etc. As long as you talk like that the rest of your diatribe does not merit a response.Thos.I can absolutely assure you that NO personal attack was meant. The analogy of the faithful dog was meant as a wee dig at the fact no matter how bad the government behaves, I can never recall you having anything but praise for them. You have defended them at every opportunity, no matter what This is much the same way as no matter how much a cruel master may kick a dog, he still comes happily back for more. Maybe it was not a good choice of words, but they seemed to apply. Sorry if any offence was taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catgate Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 ...However, they got mixed up with "time & motion" and were discredited.... Thos.Oddly enough this reminded me of a) the oft quoted adage that in both politics and sewage the scum rises to the top and B) the chap who fell in the sewage and could not swim...he just went through the motions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thos Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 ...However, they got mixed up with "time & motion" and were discredited.... Thos.Oddly enough this reminded me of a) the oft quoted adage that in both politics and sewage the scum rises to the top and B) the chap who fell in the sewage and could not swim...he just went through the motions. :lol: Thos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadyassa Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 Its not only this government, I remember when I was a plumber and we worked on a contract in a hospital.They were very short of nurses but could not take any more staff on, but instead they hired temps that were practically full time staff at 5 or 6 times what they would of paid their own nurses :0 Andsomes magical Maggie was in charge then. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catgate Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 anyone else got trouble making their first millionThis is not a question that gets asked often amongst government consultants!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thos Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 anyone else got trouble making their first millionThis is not a question that gets asked often amongst government consultants!! I am having trouble finding where that first quote came from (apart from the trouble making my first million, or even a tenth of a million!)Thos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadyassa Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 anyone else got trouble making their first millionThis is not a question that gets asked often amongst government consultants!! I am having trouble finding where that first quote came from (apart from the trouble making my first million, or even a tenth of a million!)Thos. Its under my avatar :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andsome Posted January 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 Its not only this government, I remember when I was a plumber and we worked on a contract in a hospital.They were very short of nurses but could not take any more staff on, but instead they hired temps that were practically full time staff at 5 or 6 times what they would of paid their own nurses :0 Andsomes magical Maggie was in charge then. :lol:I have made my views on the Thatcher government clear many time on here in the past. These are that they started off well, with a terrible legacy from the previous Labour government, but failed miserably when she became utterly power mad as has the present incumbent at No 10. They are all as bad as each other. Regarding the hiring of grossly expensive temps, this has happened on and off for years, and will no doubt happen again due to the shortage of staff now being promoted by B'liar and his not so merry men/women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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