moon Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 ...which is a pity really as I'm reasonable sure that they weren't the least bit interested in compulsory martyrdom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grim Reaper Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 i totally agree and wonder where and when this stupidity is going to stop.No ground is being gained by either side, the allies?? are being made more resolute in their so called war on terrorism, the idiot terrorists are celebrating their latest rampage and killing spree and the human race is simply losing more and more people. Its about time both sides gave up and decided to hate each other in peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andsome Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 This is something that I have always puzzled about, namely the Muslim mind. They hate westerners, so they kill a few and take fellow Muslims with them. They are totally weird in their outlooks on life and death. It's a great pity that their God does not hammer some plain common sense into their skulls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-pops- Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 This is something that I have always puzzled about, namely the Muslim mind.I feel that statement ought to be modified with a qualifying "fanatical muslim mind". remember that Islam is one of THE major religions and it is only a few that interpret the Koran in this sick way.Unfortunately it is this few that destroy things for the majority of normal, peaceful individuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andsome Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 It isn't JUST the fanatics. Many ordinary Muslims who would not normally cause any trouble, seem to have a very misguided sense of loyalty to so called Muslim brothers, and will not betray the perpetrators of these atrocities to the authorities. Just look how many British Muslims spoke out in favour of Saddam Hussein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir T Fireball Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 In favour of Saddam or opposed to Bush & Blair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grim Reaper Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Sir T, why does everything have to relate to bush and blair??Many of the muslim mindset are simply opposed to western ideas and theories......regardless of the current leaders. Bush was not the president at the time of the first WTC attack, nor was blair the prime minister and that all happened before iraq was invaded. Many muslims simply cannot just live and let live, it has to be their way and their demands or no way at all much like the situation in Northern Ireland used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andsome Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Sir T, why does everything have to relate to bush and blair??Many of the muslim mindset are simply opposed to western ideas and theories......regardless of the current leaders. Bush was not the president at the time of the first WTC attack, nor was blair the prime minister and that all happened before iraq was invaded. Many muslims simply cannot just live and let live, it has to be their way and their demands or no way at all much like the situation in Northern Ireland used to be.I couldn't agree more. Witness the fact that we allow them to build mosques in this country, and yet most Muslim countries will not allow a Christian to take a Bible through customs, packed away safely in his or her luggage. When a mosque was opened in Birmingham, surrounded by flats predominately occupied by people of other religions, the Muslims claimed that people were being racist because they objected to the call to prayer being broadcast several times a day, by loud speaker. The fact that planning permission was given for the mosque was not good enough, they wanted it ALL their way. Surely most Muslims in this country can afford a watch. I am NOT being racist here. If a Muslim treats me right then I will treat him the same. I have no problem with Islam as laid out in the Koran, or at least as I have been led to believe it is laid out, it's just the way these fanatics interpret it. If Muslims will live and let live, I think that they will find that most of us will also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grim Reaper Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 I couldn't agree more. Witness the fact that we allow them to build mosques in this country.andsome, that statement is outrageous. Who are "WE" to decide where people of whatever religion can create a building within which worship?"WE" do not allow or disallow anyone from building mosques, churches or temples, it is a simple case of planning permission for a building being given or not whatever the case may be.....other countries may not allow churches to be built but it is nice to think that this country doesn't decide what religious denomination a building may be used by before planning permission is given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon Posted November 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Mosques make good bomb shelters when the mullahs are out martyring people having their lunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andsome Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 I couldn't agree more. Witness the fact that we allow them to build mosques in this country.andsome, that statement is outrageous. Who are "WE" to decide where people of whatever religion can create a building within which worship?"WE" do not allow or disallow anyone from building mosques, churches or temples, it is a simple case of planning permission for a building being given or not whatever the case may be.....other countries may not allow churches to be built but it is nice to think that this country doesn't decide what religious denomination a building may be used by before planning permission is given. This is precisely the point I was trying to make. They are allowed religious freedom in this country, and so they should be, alongside everyone else. HOWEVER, the point was that most Muslim countries will not even allow a bible to be carried through their customs controls, in a closed suitcase. What is sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander, but as I said, they want it ALL their way. The other point that I made was, that for the particular Mosque in question in Birmingham, receiving planning permission and then building it was not sufficient. They called thousands of local residents, who had lived in the area for MANY years before the Mosque was even thought of, RACISTS, simply because they did not wish to be disturbed by caterwauling and wailing over loud speakers several times a day, calling people to prayer. Surely they can use watches and clocks to know what time prayer is due. I certainly wouldn't be very happy with that noise every day, would you??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon Posted November 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 I certainly wouldn't be very happy with that noise every day, would you???Personally, I'd shove the bugger off his minaret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir T Fireball Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Demonstrations of pure unadulterated racism from 2 senior forum members. Again <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nellie2 Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Sometimes Sir T it is difficult to express an opinion without appearing to be racist. Unfortunately human nature dictates that we can be less than tolerant when we think we are right.In this debates forum I like to think that members are free to express their opinions and discuss their differences, however blatant racism will not be tolerated. If any member feels that an unacceptable comment has been posted then please contact a moderator or admin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon Posted November 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Racism ? Where's that creep in ? I'm talking about Islamic Fundamentalist extremists and some silly bugger up a pole with a megaphone. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvw Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Demonstrations of pure unadulterated racism from 2 senior forum members. Again <_>Tripe.What planet are you from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir T Fireball Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 I never meant my reply to be taken as an official complaint. Just my views on the 2 posts.What planet am I on :blink: I deduce from that question that you believe in life on Mars or somesuch. Explains your attitude :wacko: A holy man calling followers to prayer, as has been the tradition of that particular faith for millennia, does not equate to 'some silly bugger up a pole with a megaphone' :P or 'caterwauling and wailing ' :rolleyes: We westerners moralise about how superior we are in having such open and democratic societies. We even use these benchmarks as justification for waging war against those that do not. Open and democratic, but just as long as it ain't on your door stop? (and preferably excercised in English) <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nellie2 Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Your reply wasn't taken as a complaint Sir T... I just wanted to make sure that everyone knows where they stand.ok..... carry on!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir T Fireball Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 :P Ta muchly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grim Reaper Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 planning permission for a building being granted does not take into account such things as a man in a tower chanting at certain times of the day.......and that for some may not be what they want to hear. Perhaps certain members could have phrased their remarks a little more tactfully, however, if a church were to be built in the middle of a residential area of islamabad, how many complaints (and probably storming of the building) would there be about the bells on a sunday morning!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andsome Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Muslims are on the whole far and away less tolerant than we are, as I said you cannot even legally read the bible in many Muslim countries. I don't think that it is too much too ask in a tolerant society, that has allowed them to build their religious place of worship, and to worship freely there, to understand that that noise several times a day is a step too far. When all Muslim countries allow other religions the same freedom as they are allowed here, then things may be different. Meantime how about a bit of GIVE on their side as well as take? To British ears, the calling to prayers is indeed caterwauling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon Posted November 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Come on, Sir T. A devout holy man calling the faithful to prayer from a sun-kissed minaret in Islamabad is the stuff that good international relations are founded upon. In Bradford, however, he's a silly bugger up a pole with a megaphone, particularly if his alien wailing drowns out the football results when one is sitting down to one's pie and mash. Of course, if he'd like to compromise and wave a flag instead, who'd give a toss ? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir T Fireball Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 planning permission for a building being granted does not take into account such things as a man in a tower chanting at certain times of the dayMaybe the planning dept in your area doesn't know what a Mosque is used for :D Regardless, pemission was given. They allow Synagogues in Islamabad, so why not Christian churches?Andsome, I don't understand your point? Are you saying that the noise would be more tolerable or less offensive to your ears if the Muslim world allowed us to ring church bells in their countries as well? Sounds like sour grapes rather than opposition to noise nuisances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir T Fireball Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Come on, Sir T. A devout holy man calling the faithful to prayer from a sun-kissed minaret in Islamabad is the stuff that good international relations are founded upon. In Bradford, however, he's a silly bugger up a pole with a megaphone, particularly if his alien wailing drowns out the football results when one is sitting down to one's pie and mash. Of course, if he'd like to compromise and wave a flag instead, who'd give a toss ? :DMoon, the local C of E church bells drive me potty on a Sunday morning. I learnt to live with it even though said denomination was created for the most unholy of purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andsome Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Actually Birmingham is NOT my area, but that is beside the point. My point is that MOST, (I did not say all), Muslim countries do not even tolerate the reading of the bible, let alone the building of churches. So why call people who have a Muslim place of worship built near to where they live whether they like it or not, RACISTS, because they find the caterwauling irritating? Regarding church bells, these can be irritating at times, but most Churches that ring bells were built well before the people who live nearby were even born, and if you choose to live within the sounds of such bells, then it is your choice. These poor people in Birmingham had no choice, they were there well before that particular Mosque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.