The Daily 'Mirror'

[moon]

The 'soldiers' found guilty of mistreating Iraqi prisoners will be punished. Their actions have probably cost many lives. Where is the punishment for irresponsible media whose actions , for money, result in the loss of many lives. The resignation of one editor is not a satisfying outcome. How about shutting it down for a month ? How about making it pay for the damage it has caused around the world ? How about forcing it to change its name ? 'Mirror' ? Insulting.

 

Mirror apologises to UK troops

The tabloid has made a major climb-down

The newspaper which published false pictures of UK troops abusing Iraqi prisoners has apologised to the regiment it accused of the torture.

The Daily Mirror said it was "hoaxed" into printing photos which appeared to show Queen's Lancashire Regiment (QLR) soldiers harming detainees.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3716613.stm

 

British graves desecrated

Scores of British war graves in the Gaza Strip have been smashed and defaced by Palestinians outraged by the humiliation of Iraqi prisoners by coalition troops.

Several of the crudely photocopied posters glued to 21 headstones - most of "unknown soldiers" who fell on April 19, 1917 - clearly showed that Britain was a prime target in last night's attack.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1-...1105122,00.html

[andsome]

The Mirror is no better than a comic, together with most of the newspapers. I have stopped buying them altogether.

[-pops-]

The way to stop all this nonsense in the press is do as andsome and not buy the filthy rags.

Of course this will not happen as there are too many people who are addicted to their daily does of titillation (that word was carefully chosen), gossip about non-entities (again that word was carefully chosen) and sundry rubbish that fill these abominable publications.

I've not read a British "newspaper" for over 20 years

A pox on the lot of them.

[Sir T Fireball]

The Mirror is no better than a comic, together with most of the newspapers.  I have stopped buying them altogether.

Surely the first case was a deliberate act and the second the result of some elaborate hoax (an accident if you will). What about putting soldiers responsible for 'blue on blue' incidents on trial for murder as mistakes are now deemed a cardinal sin? Or how about charging soldiers who accidentaly shoot/kill/maim civillians whilst in persuit of legit targets? I'm sure such mistakes do little to help their public image in Iraq. Those that sent our troops out there in the first place have unduly cost thousands of lives because of their error of judgment - what punishment would you suggest?

All in all, I think the editor losing his job was right. As for punishing those on the board etc...bit like calling for Bush to resign because of the Abu Ghraib stuff. Ain't heard you calling for that to happen yet. :rolleyes:

[Sir Radfordin]

And what would have happened if they had been proven not to be a hoax? The Mirror would have been praised for its guts in telling the truth and not from hiding things from the 'public'.

The evidence now shows that Morgan made a mistake, and as the editior of the paper he does have to take responsibility for those actions, but I'm sure he wasn't the only person to have been 'taken' in by the photos.

Whatever your view on 'newspapers' as a whole or in their own right, they do serve a purpose in society and whilst only a fool would take them as gospel truth without them you wonder how much would remain hidden from the public eye. They challenge government and other leaders to answer to the public in a way the man on the street can't do. In the same way that Hague was a great leader of the opposition in that he pushed Labour to defend themselves and 'kept them honest' (debatable I know...). He would never have made a leader but he had the guts to challenge what was said.

I wonder how many of us, if in Morgans shoes, would have made the same mistake??

[Agent Smith]

Whilst you make some valid points Sir Rad, I feel that in some cases newspapers are far too quick to publish a sensationalist story, without truly being concerned about the outcome if they are wrong.

This is a case in point. Perhaps, if the worst happens and people are killed in the middle east as a direct outcome of the Mirror's desire to tell a "true" story, then we should consider putting the editor on trial for being the cause of the deaths. Maybe then, these scumbag journalists will actually think about the repurcussions before they are so quick to print and try to sell extra newspapers.

Even if the story was indeed totally accurate, I do not think it should have been published due to the endangerment of innocent peoples lives anyway. What gives a newspaper the right to endanger a soldier or workers life, purely so they can tell the "truth" and sell more papers. This must rate worse than the actual act of torturing a prisoner.

Mr. M.

[madboy33]

A Mistake. They are having a laugh.

Regardless of whether the photographs were real or not it was totally irresponsible of a newspaper to print this sort of thing, the troopsand now civilians out there are now a target for every Faction to go out and kill/maim our troops.

I agree with free press, but when it comes down to security, these photos should never have entered the public domain. They should have been dealt with by the security services.

Thats my Rave over

[moon]

With regard to the balance between the freedom of the press, which I defend, and the security issue, of which I am aware, a responsible media would have taken the 'evidence' to the relevant authority with the demand ' investigate or we will publish'. To publish regardless of the security issue proves that the profit motive was uppermost in the minds of the 'Mirror' editorial team and board, who must have been consulted in order for a publication of this nature to go ahead. All these people have profited and the sacrifice , for causing death, destruction , insult to a regiment, shame to relatives and loss of British reputation is.......the resignation of one editor. What utter conceit to announce that the head of one gutter journalist is worth all that loss !

At the very least, the 'Mirror' should pay for the repairs to the Commonwealth cemetary in Gaza. Small recompense, I know, but they have not even offered to do that.

[-pops-]

Moon, I agree save one small point, which may be subject to argument. That is, you term The Daily Mirror as a newspaper. I have to disagree. It is a worthless rag dedicated to peddling filth and gossip, whether or not it is true, the more sordid the better. It isn't unique in this respect.

[Agent Smith]

Perhaps the problem now, is that newspapers are no longer capable of being newspapers. How can reading about an event which had to have occurred and been written about prior to the previous days print deadline, be described as NEWS??

With the rise of modern technology, such as the internet and dedicated 24 hour news channels, then a piece of printed paper stuck through your letterbox the following morning has absolutely no relevance at all to the word "news". It no longer even has a use for fish'n'chips, as the bloody print comes off all over your cod and causes cancer :angry:

The only option these publications have left in order to justify their existence, is the sensationalist approach to try and sell copies to the Neanderthal, uneducated, mindless morons who actually believe what they read in these rags to be true.

It is high time the "power of the press" was finally put out to pasture. Although I'm sure they would find some sort of story about how the Nurses at their new care home are really abusing them at night :D

Mr. M.

[Sir Radfordin]

Reading one of today's newspapers (ok, ok I admit it was The Telegraph...but only because they give it students cheap!) it was interesting to see one of the reasons the QRL cited that the photo was a fake was because the images were better than could have been achived on the camera anyone out in Iraq would have carried with them.

Given the damage done, and risk caused, by photographs such as these (false or not) why on earth do the Army allow its personnel to carry cameras?

I am left wondering why it was thought there was even a remote chance these photos could be true - has the expectation that those in authority (of any sort) will not abuse their position been completely lost? This is as true for the Army as it is for police/teachers/doctors and countless other professions.

For too long the assumption that people are innocent until proven guilty has been erroded and this is the end result.

[Sir T Fireball]

Playing devils advocate here.....

The Mirror has made it very clear that they believe our troops being in Iraq is an illegal act and that whilst continuing to illegally occupy Iraq, maim and kill thousands of civillians. If one was to assume that these views were heartfelt and sincere, their only crime would be in their highlighting criminal activity. That's commendable isn't it? Or would you suggest that our troops be protected from harm no matter what they are doing as they are only following orders?

Coming so soon after the Greg Dyke affair he should have been a lot more on the ball.

Odd that it is only the press/media that seem to pay the price for mistakes made concerning the Iraq question. How come Westministers patrons are coated in teflon when it is there mistakes/lies that are truly causing untold death and destruction?

[Sir Radfordin]

Sir T - I think the answer to your question depends on whose ethical view point you take, your own or that of the entity you are employed by? If your employer asked you to do something that you thought was ethicaly/morally/legally wrong what would you do?

My view is those serving in Iraq have been ordered to do so and only if they act illegaly in the capacity they are working should they be expected to take responsibility for their actions. If the war in Iraq is illegal do you expect every person who serverd their to be tried for that crime, or those who ordered them to work?

Look at it another way, those who are serving who also belive the occupation is illegal would have been punished had they not obeyed the orders to serve when they were given.

If the war is an illegal activity then those who ordered it are the ones who should be held responsible, and I think we all know who that is.

[Agent Smith]

Playing devils advocate here.....

The Mirror has made it very clear that they believe our troops being in Iraq is an illegal act and that whilst continuing to illegally occupy Iraq, maim and kill thousands of civillians.  If one was to assume that these views were heartfelt and sincere, their only crime would be in their highlighting criminal activity. That's commendable isn't it? Or would you suggest that our troops be protected from harm no matter what they are doing as they are only following orders?

No it would not!

Not only have they endangered the troops who are out there, which going on your DA argument would be acceptable (although I would strenuously oppose this), but they have endagered the civilians who are there (and in some cases were already there) to assist in rebuilding what was a once great country. The endangerment of these people is NOT acceptable under any circumstances.

Mr. M.

[Sir T Fireball]

Do we compensate the death camp guards of Nazi Germany whom we gave such a hard time then?

I know it isn't a like for like comparison, but the theory relates to both equally doesn't it? Israeli pilots seem to have no problem in refusing orders if they think they are being ordered to wage an unjust/immoral war :mellow:

[-pops-]

This thread is losing track.

The newspaper concerned obtained certain photographs of a "sensitive" nature. It is now obvious that the newspaper did little or nothing to prove the authenticity of the pictures and it has been shown that they were faked.

Rather than do the correct thing and hand the pictures to the appropriate authorities, together with whatever information they had of their provenance, the newspaper (in a fashion typical of sensationalist "journalism" and I do use that word very advisedly) decided to publish. In doing so they caused great damage to, potentially, a great number of people.

[moon]

According to the Attorney General the liberation of Iraq was legal. According to Sir T, it's not. According to the gutter press, and those others who aim to undermine our moral, a sizeable proportion of British troops are sadistic torturing animals. According to the reality of it, they are not. Delusion is not a crime, but what the Daily 'Mirror' did certainly ought to be.

Odd that it is only the press/media that seem to pay the price for mistakes made concerning the Iraq question.

Pay the price ? What price would that be ? Ol' Piers moving on to a plusher gutter ? That's the point of the thread, there should be an adequate punishment for irresponsible journailism.

[Sir T Fireball]

According to the Attorney General the liberation of Iraq was legal.  According to Sir T, it's not. According to the gutter press, and those others who aim to undermine our moral, a sizeable proportion of British troops are sadistic torturing animals.  According to the reality of it, they are not.  Delusion is not a crime, but what the Daily 'Mirror' did certainly ought to be.

Odd that it is only the press/media that seem to pay the price for mistakes made concerning the Iraq question.

Pay the price ? What price would that be ? Ol' Piers moving on to a plusher gutter ? That's the point of the thread, there should be an adequate punishment for irresponsible journailism.

The Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, spelled out the UK Government's legal basis for military action in a parliamentary written answer.

He argued that the combined effect of previous UN resolutions on Iraq dating back to the 1990 invasion of Kuwait allowed "the use of force for the express purpose of restoring international peace and security".

Please remind me as to how Iraq was a threat to international peace and security.

Please tell me what you think is the singlemost action of the last 18 months to have eroded world peace and security.

The Attorney General "allowed himself to be hoaxed".

Who would you rather believe anyways, a man in a funny wig and dusty gown or me, an estate agent (of sorts :P )?

[moon]

Please remind me as to how Iraq was a threat to international peace and security.

It was crawling with weapons of mass destruction. The intelligence services said so and Saddam was giving the inspectors the run-around. I remember it well.

Please tell me what you think is the singlemost action of the last 18 months to have eroded world peace and security.

The assassination of Yassin by Ariel Sharon. What's that got to do with it ?

Who would you rather believe anyways, a man in a funny wig and dusty gown or me, an estate agent (of sorts)

Goldsmith just edges it. :D

[Sir T Fireball]

It was crawling with weapons of mass destruction. The intelligence services said so and Saddam was giving the inspectors the run-around. I remember it well.

Tough little suckers. They seem to have crawled right off the face of the earth :rolleyes:

The assassination of Yassin by Ariel Sharon. What's that got to do with it ?

Nasty as it was, it has not created more terrorists than the invasion of Iraq, the subsequent illegal regime change and murder of thousands of innocent Iraqis by our forces.

Goldsmith just edges it.

Who am I to judge :P

[Tankus]

just don't buy the paper ..if you really want to make a point to them ...! better still send them a letter telling them so and post copies to their competition .

Angry from Tunbridge etc

[moon]

Nasty as it was, it has not created more terrorists than the invasion of Iraq, the subsequent illegal regime change and murder of thousands of innocent Iraqis by our forces.

The assassination of Yassin caused the present troubles in Iraq which began in early April, Yassin being assassinated late March.

[Sir T Fireball]

Nasty as it was, it has not created more terrorists than the invasion of Iraq, the subsequent illegal regime change and murder of thousands of innocent Iraqis by our forces.

The assassination of Yassin caused the present troubles in Iraq which began in early April, Yassin being assassinated late March.

His murder caused a ripple of anger along with a slight rise in rebel activity, but to suggest his death has angered more Muslims and created more insurgents than the actual invasion of Iraq is laughable.

[Tankus]

PIERS MORGAN is demanding £1m compensation from the Daily Mirror after being sacked as its editor for publishing hoax pictures of British soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners.

Sources close to Morgan said that he expected his two-year rolling contract to be honoured in full by the paper, which was forced yesterday to publish a humiliating apology for the fiasco.

The Sunday Times Looks like somebodys going to make out of it

This weekend friends of Morgan said that even now he did not accept that the paper had been proved to be in the wrong.

[-pops-]

I've heard a rumour that Richard Desmond (pornographer and owner of Express Newspapers) is seeking the favours of Morgan for his Daily/Sunday Express rags.

From one sewer to a deeper one :(