Guest Cookie Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 Will anyone on here be affected by the forthcoming 24 hour Railway Guards strikes?AND what impressions do you get from the media for the reasons behind the strike?I'd be very interested in your comments as I am involved personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LB Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 gotta be totally honest cookie, i have had sky news on practically 24/7 since the start of the war and have heard nothing about it....sorry....LB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tankus Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 As somebody who commutes by train every day....Im interested............but what are the dates ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nellie2 Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 Well there is a little bit about it here GuardianI will be driving to work so won't be directly affected but if staff members can't get to the course that I am running then re-scheduling etc will be an admin nightmare as my time is already booked up until the middle of May!!! :( As far as reasons go...my local trains are run by Arriva....and security is a must because if you are on the train to Liverpool or anywhere else for that matter there are some dead dodgy people about!!!! And I really don't see how a train driver could sort out trouble if he is driving the train!!!! :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cookie Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 24 hour strikes on 28 and 31 March and 17 April.It's not all train companies.Some have retained the safety role of the guard.Some won't be striking because they have to be re-balloted for some technicality.While others will strike because in 2001 it was agreed that no rule change would take place, they went ahead anyway. Negotiations went on through 2002 and promises to re-instate the rule were broken again and again.I'm a conductor/guard on Connex (spit, spit). As the rule stood I would, in the event of a derailement or even worse a crash, the driver would set down track circuit operating clips (TCOC's) to turn the signals to danger and then walk forward 440 yards and put a detonator on the track, walk another 440 yards and set one more and then continue for another 880 yards and set three detonators 20 yards apart. I would carry out the same proceedure to the rear of the train. If in a four track section 2, 3 or 4 lines were blocked, the protection would be carried out on all lines to stop other trains ploughing into the derailed train.All guards are trained in first aid, fire fighting and evacuation as well as the protection.. Connex are putting out misinformation saying it is about jobs. Their plan appears to be to have someone on board who would be trained to sell tickets, one day of my 13 week training. and that's all they could do.If you were involved in a derailment, who would you prefer on the back?Only one downer about being on strike......my wife said I can finish the decorating. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nellie2 Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 Ahhhh.....you see, that is the media for you, I had gotten the wrong end of the stick as far as the word 'safety', is concerned.From what you have said Cookie it seems like the companies want to save money on training costs!! But I would rather have a fully trained guard with me on my train............ there is no question about that. Also I would imagine that the staff members feel more confident if they know the procedure to follow in the event of something going wrong.As a trainer myself I can honestly say that well trained staff are a lot more cost effective in the long run than stressed, incompetent (through no fault of their own I may add) and ill equipped staff members doing their best but unfortunately failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tankus Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 I use WAGN...whats a guard....never seen one on our trains ?Driver only ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cookie Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 I use WAGN...whats a guard....never seen one on our trains ?Driver only ?Oh yes Tankus, I forgot about WAGN.Connex have DOO routes, North Kent. We only work them from Strood to Gillingham, as there are no monitors. The trains often come in trashed and have to be taken out of service.They had a lucky escape when Strood Tunnel had a very large chalkfall and the train hit it and derailed partially blocking the down line. Fortunately the driver was OK and was able to contact the signalman, by radio, to get all signals set to red.Had the driver been knocked unconcious, a train coming the other way, a minute or so later, would have ploughed into the other train and goodness knows what the outcome would have been. The Strood/Higham tunnel is 2 miles long.Two guards, waiting at Strood to do their next bit, rushed into the tunnel. I boarded the train to reassure passengers and check for injuries whilst the other went forward to check on the driver.Railtrack, as it was then, had said they didn't want the guards to go to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter e Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 Haven't heard much about this strike, cookie and it won't directly affect me. But if I can give my two pennyworth: having a guard is a matter of the health and safety of the public in the first instance, security in the second instance. Whoever wants to get rid of guards is a stupid git.The majority of the politicians, management, and union bosses in this country are crass idiots. I could go on for ages about that - but I won't.Suffice it to say, good luck in your struggle to give the public the service they deserve. ;) Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cookie Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 Thanks for that Peter. As front line staff most of us do our very best to keep everyone safe, keep the trains on time and make their journeys as pleasant as possible.This is despite the fact that we daily get the 'brain dead' trying to get away without paying and when approached threaten to punch you in the mouth, plus all the abuse when there is a points or signal failure, large vehicles hitting bridges etc. and distruption caused.Just a quickie. A few days ago I was sitting 'spare'. A guard had misread his times and hadn't turned up, it's not 9 to 5, every day is a different start and finish time so it's easily done. Anyway, I was sent to the train, already late by now, when the platform staff made an announcement 'We've found the guard, he's on his way over'I boarded the train and got it away as soon as possible, it was due out at 07:41 but I wasn't told until 07:47 but got away by 07:52A male, standing about 5 or 6 yards away, started shouting, so everyone could hear, 'Typical, he can't get up in the morning, I'm going to be late for work, all because he can't get up in the morning'I replied, in quite a loud voice 'Excuse me everybody, I'd just like to let you know that I started at four thirty three this morning having got out of bed at three thirty. I am on a spare shift to cover for staff who arrive late or phone it sick. I'm sorry if I personally have caused you any inconvenience'.Well, the blokes face went very red and he was even man enough to aplogise to me when we arrived at Victoria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Damo Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 Good on ya cookie for standing up for yourself!It must be a very difficult job at times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cookie Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 It must be a very difficult job at times!Yep, cannon fodder to all and sundry. But it has its good times.I was a bit disgusted today, one of the managers on TV said the companies cared about safety. Oh yeh, then why are they trying to reduce the responsibilty of guards?We started off as guards, then became conductor/guards and now conductors.Oh yes, there was a clip of one of the managers seeing a train out. He boarded, gave two bells and continued to look forward. If someone had opened a door behind him there could have been a nasty accident. They haven't got a clue.I'll leave this open a little longer incase anything arises between now and after Mondays strike day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter e Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 Cookie. I've seen the news items on the strike and they concentrate on the public being miffed because of delays etc. Your chaps need to get this safety issue in full public view. We've had public outcries about railway safety following those tragic accidents not long ago. But things are soon forgotten and the Iraq war is the big story at the moment. Your union needs to push the safety aspect at the travelling public.I think you are right: they'll reduce the duties of guards until they can say, "we don't need guards because they don't do anything." Again - good luck with it! ;) Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tankus Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 I thought that all the slam door trains had gone............you must be well out in the sticks......... cookie...Ill bet you,ve even still got firemen.......! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark2 Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 Maybe even steam engines.You do need to push the safety aspect more I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tankus Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 I thought that slam door's were a major safety issue...............or at least have auto locks that only release on the drivers instructions when stopped...............Im just surprised that these type of doors are still around...thats all.......! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tankus Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 Cookie.....out of interest....how did WAGN work that one out with the DOO trains with the unions ?Is it only them on all their routes ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cookie Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 Yep, still a lot of slam door stock in SE England. Not so many now as we have new class 375 trains being introduced almost daily.With the old slam door stock people can get themselves out if they wish, or though they would be safer staying in the train in the event of an accident or derailment. No so with the new ones, they are locked in. Quicker for two people to get them out, probably the guard because the driver, if concious, would have other things to do.The safety side is for the protection of the train by using track circuit operating clips, which either turns the signals to danger in the track circuit system, or indicates to the signalman, in the absolute block system, that a train is on the line.North Kent is DOO and as I said earlier, about Strood tunnel, it was lucky the driver remained concious.Recently a train, happened to be slam door stock, caught fire on the offside near one of the 'pick up' shoes. It would have been impossible for the driver to see what was happening and he would have carried on happily at 90mph. The conductor noticed the fire and contacted the driver to tell him to stop in an accessable position (Not in a tunnel, on a viaduct or bridge, in a cutting or in the middle of nowhere where there would be no access for the fire service.Anyway, the train was stopped, the guard, with the help of another who happened to be on board, managed to evacuate around 800 passengers and lead them to safety. The driver did his bit regarding getting all trains stopped and getting the current isolated (third rail system here, not overhead).It's NOT about jobs because Connex have told us they want people on board to sell tickets, give information and generally look after everyone.Under the old Rules I was obliged to put the protection down. With the new rules I have a choice, protect the train or stay with my passengers.Imagine this, the driver buzzes me and asks for my assistance in protecting the train. I look out of the window and it's blowing a blizzard with freezing temperatures. It's night time, behind me is a tunnel a mile or two long, about a mile away. The old system I would put my yellow vest on, grab my lamp and detonators, jump down on the track, clip the TCOC's across the track, walk back to the tunnel and set down three detonators 20 yards apart. Walk through the tunnel, maybe one with with no refuges, and set a further three detonators 20 yards apart. The lamp we use are pretty good and the batteries checked regularly but the bulbs can blow at any time. Imagine the bulb blows when I'm half way through the tunnel. Pitch black I have to undo two clips to release the battery, to get to the spare bulb. I then pull off the rubber surround and pull out the reflector to get to the blown one. Insert new bulb, replace reflector and rubber surround, re-insert battery, clip on back plate and I have light. What do you think my prefernce would be? Yep, stay with the passengers. No not really as I'm trained but if new conductors are not trained then......The driver has to walk forward one and a quarter miles to set the 'dets', walk back past the train, to the rear, one and a quarter miles, maybe more if the tunnel is a long one, set the 'dets' and walk back to the train. A minimum of three and three quarter miles. It's not easy walking along the track under normal circumstances but if you take the normal walking speed of 3mph it would take the driver over an hour to get everything done. Probably nearer two hours.Jobs or safety, you make your own mind up on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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