Something nasty happened to me...

[Tankus]

I'm normally a fairly paranoid person ,and I thought fairly wise to scams ......but my current account got cleaned out of almost £2000 over a weekend......Its taken me almost 2 weeks to get it all sorted out.......

I don't do on-line banking , initially I thought it was a good idea ,but whatever the bank states about its encryption , I don't like the idea how traces of what you've been up to or seen are left all over the internet without your knowledge ,so its a no-no to me.....(look what spyware does,!)

I buy occasionally oniline, in-order to do this I took out a credit card just for this purpose, which is insured . (Totally separate from my main bank accounts)

I never use cheque books................

I basically live day to day from cash withdrawals from ATMs, larger purchases being on another credit card ,because of the extra protection you have over cash purchases from the credit card company......

However after a fairly busy weekend I went to the ATM to refresh my very dry wallet, only to be denied any money as my pin number had been used too many times...Huh..?

Phoned up my bank.....A call centre in Bombay....and it turned out that my bank card had been used all over south and east london ATMS ..Maxing the withdrawals every day till I was almost £1000 in debit.....

I spoke to the fraud dept and froze all my accounts.....and then handed my card back to them.........

What was worrying me was that how could I prove that it was not me that had done the withdrawals....(how did they get my pin number?)

I will say that once I got passed the phone stage , and went to my bank an spoke person to person ,my bank was very helpfull.......

Im very aware of who is around me when I make a withdrawal on an ATM , so I could not see how it was done.......

It still has not been fully explained to me , but from the gist of it ,I used an ATM in a bank foyer which requires a card swipe to open the door to gain access to the ATM's inside, out off retail hours (safer you would think!)........Some device was attached to it which read my card details for the theives..then my card was cloned.......(fully functional)........ I don't think that I was not the only victim that day.....

Ive noticed that the bank now has a brand new entry swipe lock mechanism......

The bank is going to reimburse me for what was withdrawn fraudulently, and not charge me for the overdraft I had to take in order to tied me over........

But its been an inconvenient 2 weeks , Fairly stressful at first......But this seems like a fairly sophisticated set up to rob anybody ..

The upshot is , I'm now opening another account as a backup in another bank,so I'm not caught totally without access to money again...................!

I wonder how much of this goes on...?

[Paul]

Banks are usually very good at spotting this and sorting it out very early on, when I registered on Ebay I had to provide card details, inorder to prove the account was live US$1 was withdrawn and then put back which is normal for Ebay.

2 days pass and I get a letter from my bank saying they have frozen my account as an American transaction is not the norm for me :o I knew full well it was Ebay so I explained to them and sorted it out ok.

Just goes to show that they are on the ball most of the time but if the transactions are within this country and of a small amount then they wont spot it until you point it out to them.

[andsome]

That's the first time that I have heard of a scam like this. A branch of my bank in Lichfield has an ATM just inside a security door. If I'm in Lichfield in future I'll go without cash unless they are open. Thanks for the warning

[Tankus]

It was over a weekend......I had no reason to go to my bank until the following midweek.......I did have letters from my bank that arrived that morning (After I had left for work) querying an unusual withdrawal pattern....But by then there was nothing left....

Actually Ive no complaints against my bank, In the end they have been the victims ,But then we all pay for the crime through their low interest rates , or high ones on loans.......

The whole set up just now to me, seems so insecure.....!

[Guest Nellie2]

That is the electronic age for you........... everytime you purchase something with a card you are giving your details. We rely on the integrity of those we are buying from.... but there was a lot of publicity a while ago about people paying restaurant bills with credit cards when they used those machines you put the slips into. The carbon was being kept by unscrupulous people and then they were making purchases using the number on the slip.

[doug]

Sad tale. Just before Christmas my wife and I were most impressed with our credit card provider (Tesco which we use because of the air miles facility for our hols). Anyway, I made a European purchase over the internet for Virtual CD. This was at 10:30 pm. My wife took a call from Tesco, the following morning, querying this transaction as it was out of normal pattern. They were just checking up to ensure nothing untoward was going on.

[Guest LB]

Tankus,

sorry to hear this sad tale, makes you wonder why people have to resort to this sort of behaviour and what makes them think they are beyond the law...I hope they are caught and get what is coming to them.

Doug,

just to back up your comments, Tesco even have a check on their clubcard transactions to spot fraud....the amount of attempted clubcard fraud is unreal....and it's not even a credit card!!!!

[madboy33]

well heres my story

A friend of mine had the same situation, not by a card but by someone who got his details, contacted there nearest bank and told the bank that the Date Of Birth was wrong. my friend had banked with them for some 10 years.

Now would you not have thought that the alarm bells should have been ringing at the bank, in the knowledge that someone has come in and said that there D.O.B had changed?

well from then on it was downhill hell for my mate for 6 months, a woman kept on taking monies from HIS account (yes his)

Now the bank kept on apologizing to my friend re-crediting his account, but it kept on happening

In the end the bank changed all his accounts/cards and offered him £100 as compensation. He rejected that and threatened to go to the ombudsman and they settled in the end for something like £750.

Needless to say my friend left that particular bank and went to another.

I wont name the bank, but it was one of the big 4

My Fiancé works for this bank and she also sais the security is poor and the on-line banking security is even worse.

I would NOT bank with this bank If you paid me to

madboy33

[Guest Damo]

:o Madboy Im shocked.....one of the big four!?

Crikey! I do A LOT of online banking with one of the big four!

I dont suppose you fancy PMing me the Name do you, if it's mine them im not gonna bank online anymore!

[Sir Radfordin]

I guess this is always a risk but there isn't much you can do about it.

One thing I will say however, is that Online banking can perhaps prevent this from happening. I'm sure there are lots of people who don't keep that close a tab on their money and bank statements just get binned or filed, so it could take a while to spot something had gone wrong.

With online banking it only takes a few seconds to logon and you can quickly see whats happened over the last day or so with your account. You would perhaps pick up on a fraudulant transaction much quicker. It almost becomes a habit, like checking your emails.

With everything in life, there can be some risks, but there are also often many benefits.

[artist]

That's an awful story, Tankus. Makes you wonder if anything is really safe. I hardly ever have any cash on me these days, thinking it's easier and safer paying on a card, but an experience like yours knocks the confidence somewhat.

I've also read that about the risks of letting your card out of sight in restaurants and shops. Have to admit that we still let it happen - well, in restaurants, anyway.

[Tankus]

The saga continued.........

Been to the bank today (28/05/03),because my new pin number has not arrived ,(This all started on 13th on this month, from a last withdrawall on the 8th) )

I was told I would have to wait another 5 days,as it has failed to arrive by post.

I had to go through my withdrawal statements again, to ring the fraudulent ones. Then sign a legal document to state that it was not me that withdrew the money , and make me liable if further evidence came to light to show that it was me.

Fair enough........

I am still in debit to the tune now over two grand from where my bank account should be.......They will not reimburse me for maybe another month until a "full and thorough investigation "had been done on the withdrawals.....Another month or so......

So they have increased my overdraft facillity........

While I was waiting to see a supervisor , I had a brief chat with the smiley person who greets you at the reception, (who finds out what you want ,then writes your name down on the clip board)

I commented to him that I noticed that their new card swipe entry lock on the outer door was missing ,(It had only been replaced about a week and a half ago ) There was a several empty bolt holes in the door frame with the wires hanging of the larger hole (Which the rims were bent outward)

He said that "it had been stolen again (for about the 8th time) . Thieves come along at night and replace it with their own ............."[

"dont you have any security cameras and an alarm system outside to show you whats happening"

nah, only on the inside of the foyer , there is the CCTV outside which the police use , but thats always pointed at the junction so that they can spot driver's who jump the lights on the junction "

I must have been followed in and the thief watched me enter my pin code.........There are now BIG signs over every ATM inside the banks foyer ,telling their customers to cover their hand while entering their own pin code...........

He must be on film ,or hard drive as the new security cameras are digital ,and there are now 4 cameras inside the foyer , I'm sure that their was only two before.......

looks like I'm definitely not the only victim..........

But the fact that they know they have a problem with this , why am I still waiting for so long ?

Somewhat put out....! I went down to my Police station to let them know what is happening and update my crime report...Filed and taking up space in a drawer somewhere ! (probably a waste of their time) ,and that they may be able to get a fairly good picture of the person who got my pin number ,as I could give them the exact time and date ,when I went into the bank origionally.....

The local beat officer was totally unaware that the bank had had its swiper stolen seveal times , so he said that he would give them a visit , (the ID photos could only be delt with by the banks security!)

I hope he does ....the bank seemed so blasé about it ! l

[bvw]

The imagery presented here was captured by one of the ATM cameras as the suspect was attempting to use the victim's ATM card.

http://www.ppdonline.org/ppd6_cdd_5988.htm

The majority of these ATM's have cameras inside them which can identify the person making the withdrawal.

Some reading material on ATM's, American, interesting anyway.

http://wcpo.com/news/2002/local/10/18/atm.html

http://www.ruralcrimewatch.ab.ca/loop.html

http://www.bankersonline.com/security/gm_a...m_skimming.html

Good luck Tankus, I hope it's all sorted soon.

[AndySD]

Its been going on regulaly since January

http://www.city.ac.uk/supportservices/secu...curity_news.htm

[Tankus]

Finally got my pin code.......

New bank account is now up and running.....!

I still haven't had the money which was stolen from my old account, reimbursed........

My local bank now has yet another card swipe entry lock on the outside of the foyer door...........

Itll be a full month since my troubles started on the 8th.........

[Tankus]

Still no money !

[bvw]

Tankus.........we were burgled 14th December 2002 and are still waiting for Direct Line to replace my wife's jewelery, nearly 6 months now and getting nowhere.

Anyone insured with Direct Line, change as soon as you can!

Hope you get sorted soon Tankus.

[Tankus]

Finally I have got all the money that was owed to me and everything is back as it was ,Its taken 1 month.........

The bank did not charge me for my overdraft either .......

Im going to be a lot more careful in future on using auto-banks

[doug]

Congrats. That must be a great relief, and not a stain on your character.

[andsome]

Well done. If there's one thing I've found out in this life, it's that you really do have to keep on and on at the big corporations if you want your rights. Several years ago a friend who owned a small model shop, received a telephone call from a branch of G.K.N. They needed some balsa wood. He told them what he had in stock and they sent a driver round for his entire stock. He gave the driver the bill, but they had of course given him no cash, he had been instructed to tell my friend to send an invoice. Four months down the road he had still not been paid. He then sent an open post card to the MD, which started along the lines of, 'Dear sir, I am sorry that G.K.N. are in financial difficulties, and are struggling to settle my invoice for £150..... Within two days he had an irate financial director on the telephone complaining about this card which of course anyone could have read. The end result was that he got his money the next day.

[Tankus]

The bank is very aware of what is happening......but they don't want to overly publicise their vulnerability ,as it may put off prospective customers..................Bloody inconvenient for me however , that its taken 1 whole month to get it sorted..................!

Incidently Ive opened another current account in another bank which I'll top up for emergancies...No longer will I rely on 1 bank............

ah well .....................Live and learn.....!

[Tankus]

A bit resurrected ...but I saw this in the Sunday Times today..

BANKS are being hit by a new network of Cashpoint crooks who use Mission Impossible-style micro-surveillance equipment to steal the details from customers’ plastic cards.

The gangs employ hi-tech copying equipment and tiny CCTV pinhole cameras to steal both the card details and the Pin numbers keyed in by unsuspecting victims when they use “hole-in-the-wall” machines.

Detectives have dubbed the gangs “the Romanian ring” because nearly all of those caught have been from eastern Europe. They are believed to have stolen £5m in the past few months.

The gangs usually prey on cash withdrawal machines in places that are deserted overnight. Supermarkets and petrol stations that close in the evening are common targets. They attach a computerised “reader” over the slot where cards are inserted. A metal strip with two pinhole cameras is glued out of sight in the recess above where the customer enters the Pin number, or attached to a phoney leaflet holder added to the machine.

The gang hides in a van nearby. When a card is inserted by a victim, the gang’s device reads its magnetic strip and feeds the information back by a radio signal to a laptop computer. A few seconds later the crooks use their CCTV monitor to spy on the customer as he or she enters a Pin number. The criminals can then create a new plastic card complete with magnetic strip and use the Pin number to empty the account.