Another Case For A Referendum ?

[andsome]

As they say in the black country, "they'm killing we"

[Tankus]

The Sunday Times

MINISTERS are poised to approve the commercial growing of genetically modified crops in Britain, according to leaked cabinet papers.

Confidential letters between senior ministers disclose that the government is to back new Brussels rules banning GM-free zones and allowing the “co-existence” of GM with conventional crops.

The revelation comes ahead of the publication next month of long-awaited results of GM crop trials in Britain. The studies are expected to show that the growing of some GM crops could be allowed under regulated conditions

Looks like we're not going to have any choice in the matter , GM free zones are banned under Euro law , (buts thats because they cannot be maintained , once Gm is in the general environment , eventually the whole country will become contaminated ...)

Welcome to the experiment ....your now part of it ...! and your children

Political scumbags ....I wonder if brown envelopes have been exchanged ?

[moon]

They haven't got away with it yet !!!! Public demonstration put an end to the Poll Tax and this is much more serious. I'm currently constructing a condom for Nelson's Column in an effort to prevent the propogation of the one-eyed. See you in the square.

[Sir T Fireball]

Public demonstrations like those sufferred during the poll tax riots should be quashed with tear gas, water cannon & rubber bullets :angry:

No place for anarchists in a civilized society.

[Tankus]

I was working in Brixton's electric avenue during two sets of riots (poll tax and when some black kid died in Brixtons police station's cells .......

It was actually used for a cover for a well organised steaming of the local Jewellers then the electrical shops .......

Very few, if any locals involved , unless they were previously known to the police ....

[Tankus]

The Independent

* 20,000 people attended 675 meetings across Britain

* The public sent in 1200 letters and e-mails

* The website received 2.9 million hits in just six weeks

* 70,000 feeback forms were downloaded; 36,557 were returned

* 93% of respondents believed GM technology was driven by profit rather than public interest

* 85% thought GM crops would benefit producers, rather than ordinary people

* 84% believed they would cause "unacceptable interference" with nature

* 54% never want to see GM crops grown in Britain

* 86% were unhappy with the idea of eating GM food

* 93% said too little was known about health effects

* 2% were happy with GM foods in all circumstances

[moon]

Now lets see Tone poke his head up B)

[Tankus]

Unfortunately he is

It is Mr Blair who sits at the heart of the GM project. Although other ministers are keen supporters, such as the Environment Secretary Margaret Beckett and the Science Minister Lord Sainsbury, it is the Prime Minister who is the main GM cheerleader within Government: principally, it has long been rumoured, because of a face-to-face conversation with Bill Clinton in 1998.

The Government has been accused of "caving in" to the United States and big business after leaked letters revealed it plans to support the commercial growing of genetically modified crops in Europe.

On 11 July the Government's own civil servants concluded - embarrassingly for Mr Blair - that they were unable to find any compelling economic reason for introducing GM technology. The report on costs and benefits of GM by the Strategy Unit of the Cabinet Office said that the benefits would be strictly limited, not least because no one would buy the products.

Again from the Independent

I cannot understand what happens to the legal standing of a farmer who wants to stay organic , yet a the government puts a Monsanto field next to him , as a "trial" . The organic farmers field will get contaminated , and he will loose his "organic " status , yet what can he do ....?

Do think that B'liar has been offered a job on Monsanto's board after he leaves (soon I hope) politics....?

Something is very smelly about this governments position ........

A letter and petition delivered to No 10 earlier this week

Green gloves

Green Gloves

16 B Cherwell Street,

Oxford, OX4 1DD

Prime Minister Tony Blair

10 Downing Street

London, SW1A 2AA

Tuesday 23 September 2003

Dear Tony Blair,

I write to you on behalf of the hundreds of people who've already signed the Green Gloves Pledge - a pledge to peacefully remove Genetically Modified crops or support those who do, if GM crops are grown commercially. The collection of pledges is continuing and the number of signatories is expected to be in the thousands within weeks. A similar pledge in New Zealand collected 3,000 pledges in 12 weeks.

There are so many ways in which the British public have said no to GM food and crops. Numerous polls since 1996 show a consistent 'no thank-you' to GM food and crops. Pollsters MORI show that support for GM food has fallen and is now only 14% of those surveyed. When the Euro-barometer looked closer, they discovered that the more people knew about GM crops the louder they said NO.

When Monsanto's advertising campaign ran back in 1998, they said "we want to hear your opinion". In response Monsanto's own pollster noted a 'society wide collapse of support for GM foods'. Today Monsanto no longer even try to grow GM crops in the UK.

Then there was the rush from the shelves. Supermarkets and food producers who admitted carrying GM in their own food were punished at the checkouts. Hundreds of thousands of customers phoned up and politely explained what NO meant . UK Supermarkets and food producers now say that they can not imagine re-stocking GM foods in the foreseeable future.

And then there were the parents. School cafeteria after school cafeteria were told by parent governors to stop feeding children GM foods and complied. The local authorities extended their non GM policies to other cafeterias and even the prisoners received non-GM grub after the inmates started saying NO.

There was even a little 'yes' that was really a great big NO! Sales of organic food started growing faster than the computer industry, and hundreds of celebrity chefs from Nigella to Anthony Worral Thompson stopped arguing over pesto and agreed that GM was one thing they could all say NO to.

Then there was the aid agencies - Christian Aid, Action Aid and others pointing out that that GM crops had no part to play in solving world hunger - another lie nailed, another simple NO.

Then there was Middle England. The rank and file of the Women's Institute, The Townswomen's Guild, the RSPB, church groups all passing motions saying NO to GM. Not to mention the 120 national organisations calling for a freeze on GM. Was your government listening?

Then there were the public meetings, thousands of impassioned public forums in little village halls up and down the country as community after community impressed on their farming neighbours that the greasy pound for planting a 'trial crop of GM' was poor recompense for loss of community trust.

Then there was the non-violent action pulling-up GM crops, thousands of people by night and day, removing GM crops from the ground, held up as heroes. Even Tommy Archer had a go. When the magistrates and Jurors were asked whether these people were guilty of a crime, they joined in and also said NO.

When GM food and Crops were themselves put on trial by several independent citizen's jury's, both in the UK and abroad, then they decided that the introduction of GM food or crops should be stopped.

Then there were the investors. Deutsche Bank declaring 'GMO's are Dead!', Swiss Reinsurance saying they wouldn't insure GM with a bargepole and Monsanto's share price ringing at its rock bottom lowest .. the 'NO's it seemed could be heard as far as Wall Street and the City.

And then there are increasing number of the GM-Free local authorities - from Cornwall to Cumbria to the Welsh Assembly. No-go areas for GM food and crops.

When your own Cabinet Office were asked if there was an economic case for GM the answer was a sheepish NO.

And now belatedly, the under-funded public debate, 'GM Nation?' in which 20,000 people participated is to say 'NO', according to the head of the committee overseeing it.

Recent messages from your ministers indicate that you intend to press ahead with GM commercialisation regardless and we are left wondering which part of NO GM you did not understand? You have recently said that you intend to listen more to the public than you may have in the past. In that spirit will you now announce that your government will respect the clear wishes of the British people and halt the commercialisation of GM crops in this country?

I look forward to receiving your reply

Yours sincerely,

Andrew Wood, on behalf of Green Gloves.

Apparently this group have 3000 people pledged to pull up any more new ly planted GM crops

[Tankus]

From the Independant

Up to 600 million GM crop plants could grow in Britain annually under plans drawn up by the European Commission to be considered next week.

The plans would in effect bring in GM agriculture by the back door, and seriously compromise organic farming across Europe. They could lead to European farmers growing more than six billion genetically modified crop plants every year, without realising it.

What is the matter with these people

Independent

Margaret Beckett, the Environment Secretary, has been accused by one of her colleagues of sweeping the issue of GM crops "under the carpet" after she failed to mention it in an important speech on the Government's environmental priorities yesterday.

[Tankus]

B'liar's revenge

[moon]

Electronic referenda. No more tyrants.

[Tankus]

This is a pet theme of your's...... moon .............!

Do you really think it will change anything .......?

Every major decision we all press the red button ?

Give it a few months and nobody would be interested

Apathy of the masses

Thats why we are in Iraq , and thats why GM is heading our way ...

Evidence of madness

Scientists from the United States have created a simple virus from scratch, assembling more than 5,000 DNA building blocks, which they say could eventually lead to genetically-modified organisms able to eat carbon dioxide and clean the environment.

The idea provoked immediate opposition from environmental campaigners who branded it "very dangerous and a bit madcap" and warned that such organisms could run amok.

Independent

[Tankus]

UK Government advisers on genetically modified crops have called for rules to prevent contamination of neighbouring farms if they are widely introduced.

Fears of ordinary crops being tainted have sparked strong opposition from consumers and organic farmers.

Recent GM crop trials also raised worries over GM's environmental impact.

BBC

Why is there need for any more debate on this....?

Just let the US carry on with what they are doing , let them do the testing , let them irreparably contaminate their land and their whole food processing system .

while we stand back , eat our organically grown veggies and have a laugh at their stupidity.......

[moon]

Aye to that. Burp ! Sprouts, anyone ? :D

This is a pet theme of your's...... moon .............!

Do you really think it will change anything .......?

One can only hope. For me it's the hint of an escape from the current nightmare.

[Tankus]

One can only hope. For me it's the hint of an escape from the current nightmare.

You could not just elaborate on that could you ....?...moon ...?

Just so that I dont get the wrong end of the stick ,before I sprout off...

[Guest nellie2]

I know you don't like smilies but I have a pressie for you Tankus :ranting: :thumbup:

[Tankus]

If it had a ginger beard ,,,that would be me I guess ...Nel ...!

[moon]

I'll give it a go.

We're ruled by money. 'Democracy' is founded on it. Sponsors pick the Tory party leaders, sponsors pick the Labour party leaders. With their sponsor's money, each mounts their advertising campaign which is huge enough to swamp the poorer, and therefore little known, fringe parties. The fringe parties are the birthplace of ideas and are fueled by idealism. As idealists they allow the 'purchased' parties to absorb their ideas, and trumpet them as their own, because they would rather see them put into practise than hold out for power themselves. This has become their role, to air ideas which the large parties absorb as it becomes evident that they strike a chord with the public.

If the fringe parties could unite and communicate at speed, cheaply, they would stand a chance of gaining 'power' without being compromised by the desires of sponsors. They might, for example, declare that no new cars would be allowed onto the roads until 2006. Everybody knows that the roads are choked and destroying the environment but nobody in the current system will take the steps necessary to cure it. The auto lobby would have no power over them as their 'donations' would not be accepted.

The Internet provides the means for cheap communication at speed. Every intellectual in the country is on here. Electronic referenda could begin at local level, killing off the fat burghers who dominate in the shires through sleaze and conivance. The city burghers, self-styled representatives of the factories, would find that the intelligentsia started to make an impact at the electronic ballot box rather than the Joe's from the factories who vote to continue to produce the poisonous products, the chemicals, the packaging , the wastes, the oils for a mad society which is unsustainable. To the practical idealists, employment is not an issue.

The seeds of radical ideas are sown faster today than ever before. Through the Internet we could vote for ideas, not candidates, and the curse of personality politics would be lifted. I don't want ' leadership', I want common sense.

Vive la revolution electronique.

[Tankus]

no power over them as their 'donations' would not be accepted.

There is the flaw in your utopia...... moon......

To use a sound bite glib-ism ....money talks , sensibility walks ......

Your idealism will not get past that hurdle ...

But I'm not sure it should...... Financial abuse as opposed to electronic abuse ...?

Electronic corruption is just bad as financial , and just as pervasive ...

[moon]

Electronic corruption is just bad as financial , and just as pervasive ...

Yep, and I've got a good idea who's corrupting it.

[ByGeorge]

..... are populated by the spawn of beelzebub,  I'm saying that they are populated by blind breadheads.  These breadheads do the bidding of their shareholders who are so far removed from the front line of local European economics as to know eff all about anything but dividends.  Europe alone already produces enough surplus to feed Africa.

They probably are mate, however the rest of your quote is something I've been trying to communicate for a few decades, well almost. ;)

Both Europe and the USA overproduce, and then subsidize the farmers to continue to overproduce, stockpile the stuff for months, then dump it after it expires.

GM products wouldn't expire so quick, therefore they have a problem with the overproduction, more storage, or generosity to the poor.

I bet they dump it too.

Africa could have been saved, either by the minerals, .....no stolen, tourism, .....but not safe, ...., it isn't all a desert, even though some try and portray it that way.

HELLO, food in stomaches makes Johnny work harder, not have to kill for the next meal by robbing an Aid convoy. He has time to grow his food because he's not chasing around looking for it.

You know, sheesh, this planet could be so easy to live on, if only it were properly managed, and controls placed on the worship of the dollar as against the overall benefit to humanity as a whole. Population control is also an issue, but I'll not touch on that here.

There's a managing director of a bank down here on $9+ Mill a YEAR, plus options, probably nothing like some overseas, but heck this is Oz, we've only got 20 Mill people. I'm sure he ain't alone, nor the highest.

Greed, that's all it is, they get a kick out of doing their job, the actual amount is ir-rellevant, to them. They would probably say they didn't know!!! :confused:

But the current debate is about GM, and I must be honest and say the thought of a tomato is still good in the fridge after three weeks, then it is, however, applied unilaterally to just about anything and everything would be disasterous.

Sad really, isn't it. :down:

[Tankus]

The GM foodstuff being sold as a world savior ,and mana from heaven ...but its not .... Its the hard sell ...!

Check the Monsanto links from the earlier posts....... ByGeorge........

What they really do is tie you down to that companies weed killers which is keyed to work with the GM crops and can only be obtained from that company .A closed market .....Check out Canada's rapeseed problems .

The US food processing chain is now fully contaminated , It is essential for their agri industry that anti GM does not gain a foothold anywhere , as it would take decades to go back . They are committed . They cannot take that chance , hence the extensive lobbying within the Euro governments in which our B'liar is the leading mug ....( three guesses where he will get lucrative directorships once the sheep wake up and give him the heave- ho)

Plenty of overproduction to feed africa from the Eurozone without the need for GM as it is ..

What really needs to be sorted are their so called governments with their own hand in the tills ...

[Tankus]

Ministers to approve commercial growth of GM crops next month

Opponents furiously attacked the prospect of GM plants entering mainstream farming last night but said that supporters of the technology still faced a long battle before the first crops could be planted. They criticised farm-scale tests as flawed and said more research was needed before GM varieties were licensed for widespread use.

Margaret Beckett, Secretary of State for the Environment, will impose the stringent regulations after Acre concluded that farm-scale trials showed GM maize could be less damaging to the environment than conventional varieties

I CANNOT HELP WONDERING IF BROWN ENVELOPES HAVE CHANGED HANDS