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Why we are going to war


Guest George
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Guest Nellie2

You have made a good point there spook.........no two good points.

Rash decisions..........I am guilty of that......my brain follows my mouth about two paces behind!!!! Seriously though, if we (by we, I mean the collective we as in governments as well as the individual we,) considered the consequences of our actions before acting there would be a lot less suffering around us.

Religious traditions.....Whatever religion a person follows, I think you will find that the teachings are consistent. Forgiveness and respect for our fellow man.

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Guest spook

Better said yourself Nellie.

You said what I was trying to say much better than I could've with copious editing.

Same old same old, I suppose. But I think the most pressing issue today has to be the one of 'equanimity' between nations. Can't see how or why people should be restrained without promise of that. Peace and restraint is pragmatic as well as idealistic, but I just can understand why some would despair of effecting such change, as needs occur in situations as the Palestinian/Israeli situation which has been boiling over for many years now.

What is it all about, Alfie?

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Guest Nellie2
What is it all about, Alfie?

Well I had to put something in as a signature and that is all I could think of at the time!!! :blink:

As for the rest.....I am truly flattered as you are so much more articulate than I.

'Equanimity between nations', what a phrase!.......if we could truly achieve that then we will be a lot closer to achieving nirvana....or whatever any persons interpretation of nirvana is!! :)

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  • 3 months later...

Iran next.........?

US turning on the pressure on UN atomic energy inspections on Iran's 2 Soviet built nuclear reactors .........Reactors are capable of being swithced over to Plutonium production....

Is the US behind civil unrest in Tehran ........?

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There's never been any secret about Iran being next. When allah murdered 3.000 peeps on a sunny day in New York he condemned himself to eternity with Amercan teeth in his arse.

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Guest Nellie2
When allah murdered 3.000 peeps on a sunny day in New York

That is a bit like saying the Christian God is responsible for the troubles in Ireland. I am not a theologian...... but I think you will find that all religious teachings go along more or less the same line. That is 'love your fellow man, be tolerant and do not kill". I certainly know of no religion that condones mass murder. It is the fanatics interpretations of these teachings that is the problem.

(Before we get into a debate on Ireland I do realise that it all started because of opression....... but it has basically turned into a hate war now. If you are born into one religion then you are automatically the enemy of the other......... that can't be right!)

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I use 'allah' in place of 'Islamic Fundamentalist half-men' in an attempt to get the respected and humanitarian 'Old Islam' to get its act together and deal with its totally mad fringe on its own. Until they do that, I'll use 'allah' in place of 'Islamic Fundamentalist half-men'. If they fail to do it I'll have to accept that the respected and humanitarian 'Old Islam' has gone and I'll treat all muslims with equal contempt. What happened in Iraq will be repeated all over the Middle East until Islam puts its house in order. That's not a request, that's an instruction from the world's new god. Gods come and go, good and bad. It looks like allah has had his day.

I didn't have a loved-one at the WTC, nor the Bali nightclub. If I had , I'd be out there now with my sniper rifle. I have no doubt that there are fresh horrors to come but the preventative measures taken so far have confused and disorganised the enemy. Should a member of this forum fimd themselves decorating the inside of a bus I'll be trying to avenge you. I hope you would for me. This is modern war. You're in it. Long live sanity.

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Guest Nellie2

Unfortunately where ever you look there will always be fanatics. But you just cannot tar everyone with the same brush. Just because a person happens to be a particular race or creed does not make them guilty of their brother’s crime.

I am lucky I suppose, I didn’t know anyone at the WTC or anyone who has been a victim of terrorism. I will say that I was off work on Sept 11th, I watched the whole thing happen on TV from beginning to end and it affected me deeply. I appreciate your concern and loyalty but if I was a victim I don’t know that I would want anyone to avenge me. What would you do….. if I was a victim of a suicide attack then the perpetrator would already be dead. Violence towards his family or countrymen would not achieve anything and only make the situation worse.. I don’t think I would like to be responsible for that.

There are many good Muslims and Christians and Jews etc…. I would prefer to take someone at face value than to stereotype them because of their background. I am constantly told that I am too trusting and gullible….maybe, but I would rather give someone a chance and take the consequences than to dismiss them all because of who they are.

By the way, I am not religious, I suppose I would call myself agnostic.. but I do respect those who take comfort from their religion and I do try to keep an open mind.

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I am constantly told that I am too trusting and gullible….maybe, but I would rather give someone a chance and take the consequences than to dismiss them all because of who they are.

That should depend entirely upon the consequences and who was affected by them.

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Guest Nellie2

Well, like I said..... the only faith I have is in my fellow man. If they can see the good in me then I will do my utmost to try to see the good in them. :)

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Well, to an Islamic Fundamentalist half-man you are infidel trash, bomb-meat. He has suffered a lifetime of indoctrination and is warped beyond repair. The monster that indoctrinated him is worse. Having them round for tea, are we ? :blink: :D

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Religion has caused more trouble than anything else in this world. Surely anyone with a modicum of common sense can see that there can only be ONE GOD, no matter what you choose to call him or her. It is man made religion that has caused all these troubles. All religions claim that their version of God is the only true one, but right wing Jews fight left wing Jews, and both fight Muslims. One type of Muslim fights another type, and also fight Jews and Christians, one type of Christian fights another, eg catholic versus Protestant. Hindus and Muslims fight each other, I could go on and on. Where does all this leave a belief in God? The truth is that none of them could stand up before their God and claim to be a true whatever they choose to call themselves. The true and good people of this world say their prayers, if indeed they do say them, in private. They do not need churches of one type or another, temples of one type or another, synagogues of one type or another, or mosques of one type or another, they are all MAN MADE. So are all the trappings and silly hats and clothes worn by the leaders of all these man made religions.

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I have to disagree. One god is a fragile thing. Societies with many gods fare better. The pagan gods still 'exist', our days of the week are named after them and always will be. Other gods have special days during the year but the pagan ones are with us everyday. Christians hold their weekly services on 'Sun' day, not 'Christ' day or 'god' day. Religion is a quest for knowledge, a discipline for thinkers. It should never settle upon one set of beliefs and become a rigid, even an aggressive stance. Nellie , on any day with a pagan name, employs 'Christian' tolerance borrowed from earlier benevolent gods in her thinking towards Islam, itself based upon earlier thinking. Fundamentalist Islam tolerates only one god in a world brimming with colourful and diverse deities . Pick any culture and there are dozens of them. One god sickens a culture, in the case of Islamic Fundamentalism causing it to attempt to crush the arts and sciences, mutilate and enslave its women, put to death the bearers of a different message. It has become intolerable and the massed gods of saner societies are in the process of dealing with it. The concept of 'one god' implies that believers in other gods are wrong. That is not a basis for world harmony. We should accept all gods, chew them up, swallow them or spit them out, but never deny their existence nor their power in the minds of their devotees, then we'll start to get to the real heart of the universe.

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Moon I understand what you are saying, but I think you have missed the point that I am making. Whether an individual actually believes in God is one thing, what I was pointing out is that if there is indeed God, then there can only be ONE. That one God is called different names by each religion. It is the fact there are different religions that causes the problem, because each bunch will actually kill other bunches because they believe that their version is truth. Therefore it is man made religions that cause so many wars. Anyone who has a private belief in God as I do, is capable of saying a silent prayer and meaning it, without incense, silly hats and clothes, over decorated buildings, and pomp and ceremony.

The primitive tribes who worship pagan Gods, who in the light of real knowledge cannot possibly exist, are usually too afraid of the other tribes Gods to fight over the issue.

I am going away for a few days, and hope that this debate is still continuing when I return. I am taking 'er indoors to Mid Wales for a few days. It will be interesting to see more opinions on this matter without actually coming to blows over it.

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Guest Nellie2

Before I add my bit I will just like to say that I truly respect what ever personal beliefs another person my have. I would never dismiss out of hand what another person believes to be right.

However...... I don't think there can be one God. I don't think there can be any God. I find it hard to comprehend a benign being who would create us and then sit back and watch us destroy ourselves in His name.

I do believe that I have an essence.....spirit if you like...... that will go on to something after my body is dead. It is that essence that makes me who I am. I don't know much about pagan religions....but I do know that paganism is not practised by primitive tribes. How would you define primitive??

We only have one world though, we need to live in harmony with it in order to have any hope of survival.

I think religion of any sort is borne out of our need to give ourselves boundaries and rules to live by. Ancient religions like Islam worked well in their day because of the society of the time..... but we have grown and the rules need to grow with us. The basic teachings of tolerance and understanding will always be relevant though.

Whatever a person chooses to believe, is right for them...... I heartily agree with moons statement:

We should accept all gods, chew them up, swallow them or spit them out, but never deny their existence nor their power in the minds of their devotees

At the end of the day we only have one chance in this life to make a difference.. however small that may be which brings me back to my original thoughts. If I can live in my world..... respecting it for what it gives me... seeing it for the potential that it has and trying to believe in the good of the individual. Then maybe I can make my small difference.

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religion=politics

nothing more- nothing less

One mans attempt to gain influence over another ,for his own gain.....

Its the animal within us all .

Multiple gods aren't to much cop either.....

Some of the most bloodthirsty had them.

Vikings ,Pict's ,Celts,Aztecs ,Romans,Greeks ,Hindus,Persians ,Egyptians,Sumerians,Mongols ,and Huns....off hand.......

Incidentally andsome I'm from the south and west , So I would not be much of guide, Far too many pagan cannibals out there at night in the upper valleys.......STAY OUT of the woods when it get s dark....... !

Have fun though

Good site

Castles of Wales if your into that sort of thing (go to the home page)

I used to live 400 yards away from this

Welsh Tourist Board

post-8-1056222277.jpg

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