Does PM = Peripatetic Meddler

[Thos]

Precisely my point, and I cannot understand how some people cannot see this. I don't mean any offence to anyone. I just find it strange that these facts do not seem to register.

Instead of making sweeping assertions, try harder to understand why others may hold a different view.

You and r4may mention the "raid" on pension funds in the early years of the Brown Chancellorship. Yes, his abolition of the Advanced Capital Tax meant that pension funds could no longer claim a refund of tax received in dividends. At the same time, I believe, individuals were no longer able to claim refund of tax on personally owned shares. At that time the stock market was soaring away and many firms were allowing themselves a pension contribution "holiday", something they fail to mention now when their shares are not "soaring away" and their pension funds are in deficit. Instead they choose to blame solely the Chancellor. Don't forget, either, that the first raider of the tax relief on pension funds was Norman Lamont some 4 or 5 years before. Without wanting to labour this even more, Brown also sought to offset the removal of relief by a reduction in corporation tax.

So all is not black and white and others are quite entitled to see the situation in an altogether different light and thus draw different conclusions without being told they are "blind to the truth".

Thos.

[andsome]

Brown also stopped the age related tax relief, but only for those newly over 65. This means that I pay several pounds per month more income tax than do those one year or more older than me. Council taxes have just about doubled since B'liar came to power, due in a large part to Browns policies regarding grants toward council taxes by central government. Another daft idea that he had was to enable people to buy houses and then rent them out, and include the income in their Isa's, so qualifying for tax relief on these earnings. It had to be pointed out to him that only the very wealthy could afford to invest in this way, and that it would put up the price of lower cost homes, and therefore the rents of these homes, thus making it more difficult for the lower paid to get into the housing market. He had to modify his daft plan. So much more of the legislation by this lot has suffered similar flaws, as can be seen by the revolts among the governments own M.P's.

[Thos]

So all is not black and white and others are quite entitled to see the situation in an altogether different light and thus draw different conclusions without being told they are "blind to the truth".

Thos.

I can assume then, that you don't agree with the above without necessarily getting into an discussion on all the aspects of treasury policy

Thos.

[andsome]

The TRUTH is that this so called government has made so many c ock ups, that even a good many of their own M.P's have lost count.

[catgate]

I repeat:-

Well that was because they were politicians. Now we have got politicians it's all so much better. (Well.. for the politicians...and sod the rest of you)

Your arguments are like discussing which piece of potassium cyanide is the most deadly. All politicians are con artists of the worst kind. Some of them think they are better than others, and this in itself is a con of self delusion. Each successive government finds itself in the mire left by the preceding bunch and has to lever itself out by robbing the populace to 1) pay back its backers and 2) spend itself into temporary popularity, all the while laying up deep trouble for the next bunch of self seeking carpet baggers.

None of their claims are worth the paper they are rotten on. Yesterday John Reid (Minister for Whatever-he-is-told-to be) said that the public should not panic about bird flu, because the government had taken all the necessary precautions to prevent problems. One can only hope this a more substantial preparedness than existed with foot and mouth and BSE.

One can only assume that if Toady (or any other PM) had been the captain of the Titanic it would have been announced that there was no need to panic because "We have just stopped to take on ice."

[Thos]

The TRUTH is that this so called government has made so many c ock ups, that even a good many of their own M.P's have lost count.

That's your TRUTH.

Discussing anything like this with you is like wading through treacle.

Thos.

[edbanger]

Discussing anything like this with you is like wading through treacle.

An excellent observation.

[andsome]

I repeat:-

Well that was because they were politicians. Now we have got politicians it's all so much better. (Well.. for the politicians...and sod the rest of you)

Your arguments are like discussing which piece of potassium cyanide is the most deadly. All politicians are con artists of the worst kind. Some of them think they are better than others, and this in itself is a con of self delusion. Each successive government finds itself in the mire left by the preceding bunch and has to lever itself out by robbing the populace to 1) pay back its backers and 2) spend itself into temporary popularity, all the while laying up deep trouble for the next bunch of self seeking carpet baggers.

None of their claims are worth the paper they are rotten on. Yesterday John Reid (Minister for Whatever-he-is-told-to be) said that the public should not panic about bird flu, because the government had taken all the necessary precautions to prevent problems. One can only hope this a more substantial preparedness than existed with foot and mouth and BSE.

One can only assume that if Toady (or any other PM) had been the captain of the Titanic it would have been announced that there was no need to panic because "We have just stopped to take on ice."

Couldn't agree more. The Tories were sleazy OK, but this lot have them beaten. :D

Council taxes under Labour

More on Council tax under Labour

[catgate]

One of your links said:-

Council leaders say they are sometimes forced to inflict big increases on householders because the tax only raises about 25 per cent of their budget needs.

This shows the defective way in which the politician's minds work. Any right minded individual would say we must cut our coat to suit our cloth, but no, they must do what they see as "buying" their way to "success". They are all an ego ridden, mentally unbalanced menace, no matter what colour rosette they flaunt temporarily.

I spent a little time in the dying industry (when we had one in the early 50s). There I learned how easy it is to create any colour from red, blue and yellow dyes.

[Thos]

Your arguments are like discussing which piece of potassium cyanide is the most deadly. All politicians are con artists of the worst kind. Some of them think they are better than others, and this in itself is a con of self delusion. Each successive government finds itself in the mire left by the preceding bunch and has to lever itself out by robbing the populace to 1) pay back its backers and 2) spend itself into temporary popularity, all the while laying up deep trouble for the next bunch of self seeking carpet baggers.

None of their claims are worth the paper they are rotten on. Yesterday John Reid (Minister for Whatever-he-is-told-to be) said that the public should not panic about bird flu, because the government had taken all the necessary precautions to prevent problems. One can only hope this a more substantial preparedness than existed with foot and mouth and BSE.

One can only assume that if Toady (or any other PM) had been the captain of the Titanic it would have been announced that there was no need to panic because "We have just stopped to take on ice."

This shows the defective way in which the politician's minds work. Any right minded individual would say we must cut our coat to suit our cloth, but no, they must do what they see as "buying" their way to "success". They are all an ego ridden, mentally unbalanced menace, no matter what colour rosette they flaunt temporarily.

I spent a little time in the dying industry (when we had one in the early 50s). There I learned how easy it is to create any colour from red, blue and yellow dyes.

I understand your position, catgate, but I cannot accept it. I, for one, don’t believe that all who enter public service to work as helpers, agents, councilors or candidates do so as self-serving aspirants to the gravy train. In my view, the great majority do so honestly to try to make a change for good in public life. Some fall by the wayside as do many in any walk of life but most of whatever political persuasion are able people doing their best. I also do not believe that there is any shame in attempting to improve your lot in life by accepting jobs and promotion in the public service. Of course mistakes are made as are false judgments I wouldn’t deny that.

So which piece of potassium cyanide would I choose? Well my stance is that I look at the thrust of what I believe each party stands for and choose accordingly. Some parts of what is done, I resent because I have no say in the course of individual pieces of legislation. As you have said before, voters are largely disenfranchised; we have to take the whole and not individual parts. Unlike you, however, I cannot believe that throwing out the system would improve matters in that respect.

I am not trying to alter your mind; I know and respect your point of view. But I would hope that you would soften your belief that “all politicians are con-artists of the worst kind”

Thos.

[r4may]

Surprising how a small comment / quetion about "our little cherub " provides the touchpaper to such heated political debate. :P :P :P

[andsome]

Surprising how a small comment / quetion about "our little cherub " provides the touchpaper to such heated political debate. :P :P :P

Can't beat a good debate. :D

[r4may]

Surprising how a small comment / quetion about "our little cherub " provides the touchpaper to such heated political debate. :P :P :P

Can't beat a good debate. :D

Quite agree :lol: :lol: