Incremental vs Full Backups

[-pops-]

Until recently I have always prepared a full backup and then added incremental backups to this (an incremental backup being one that only records differences between the backup on file and the current files on the hard drive).

I began wondering the other week why I do this. On this machine, a full Acronis backup into Acronis secure Zone takes 13 minutes. An incremental backup takes between 12 and 13 minutes. Now, I appreciate that this time difference could be significant to some but, I now feel more secure that each backup I make is independent and doesn't rely on the fusing of two separate backup files if, or when, the need arises to use it.

By using Secure Zone, this automatically operates a grandfather, father, son system where the oldest file is deleted when there is no space on the storage medium for the latest one.

[AlanHo]

Pops - How big are your hard drives and how full? You have me worried because my machine takes much longer.

I took a full back-up last week end and it took 53 minutes.

My GB C: drive uses 41GB for the OS and programmes

My 120GB D: drive currently has 44GB of "My Documents" and other data

An incremental back-up took 42 minutes - even though I had installed no new programmes (but a few MS and other updates) and not too much in the way of data changes. However I have Diskeeper running in the background to keep my hard drives defragged and understand that this causes Acronis to see more incremental changes due the files being moved on the drive.

Like you I had concluded that the time saving is not worth it and had already decided to take full back-ups in future. They say great minds think alike.

A restore of my C: and D: drives took 1 hour 14 minutes - quite a bit longer than it took to take the image.

Windows XP SP2

AMD Athlon 64 3000+

SATA drives

1 Gb memory

[-pops-]

Alan, don't worry about the time it takes - there are so many variables that influence this -CPU speed, SATA vs EIDE, writing speed of drives and so on.

My point was that the time difference between an incremental and a full backup is not great enough to worry about and the confidence given by having a full backup each time is, in my opinion, worth it.

You see my point, though. Your full backup takes 53 minutes and incremental 42. Wouldn't everyone prefer the confidence given by those 9 minutes extra backup time to have a complete rather than partial safety net. You don't have to sit and watch it so, why not let it do it?

[Thos]

I am not quite with this. I have always created incremental back-ups to an external hard drive by clicking "create image" on the Acronis page. Every now and then a message comes up saying there is no more space. So I clear the EHD and start again with a full back up. It doesn't seem to me to clear the oldest files in my case. Ought I to be doing something different?

Thos.

[-pops-]

Thos, if you use the Acronis "Secure Zone" then when you have filled the disk with incremental backups, all you need to do is make a full backup. This will automatically clear your old files and create a new backup for you (no need to clear the disk yourself) BUT if you only have one full backup and all the rest are increments then that means that all your backups are cleared and you are left without any backup at all until you have created your new one - a potentially dangerous situation.

Doing it my "new way" using Secure Zone and a full backup every time you will have a constant rotation of fresh backups - oldest being chucked out and replaced with a fresh one.

[Thos]

Thanks. Presumably I need to create a "secure Zone" on my EHD and the back-up onto there. I'll try it this afternoon.

Thos.

[-pops-]

Acronis will do all the Secure Zone creation for you, Thos. You just have to tell it where to put it. I takes a minute or so to create so don't worry if it just seems to be sitting there doing nothing.

[djohn]

This is the question I was asking regarding DI7 which does full backups each time instead of incremental ones. I still can't find if it will do the incremental ones but DI7 also takes only 10 minutes or less for 60 Gb of data and this application also works on a 5 folder system of first in, first out. You can of course bin any of them manually at any time you wish. I think I may stick it on my machine pops seeing as there is not much time saving and the fact you think its better to have a full backup each time.

[-pops-]

djohn, doesn't DI7 come out of Windows into its own form of DOS to do its "thing"?

I remember DI when I used it (don't know which number now) shut down Windows to start up its own backup program but then didn't. It somehow got stuck and wouldn't then load up itself or allow me to restart Windows. Had a devil of a job getting things going again and I can't remember how I it it but it certainly put me off the program. I always found it scary to use anyway, coming out of Windows into its own system, with its low refresh rate on screen such that it gave me headaches just from a short look at it.

The fact that it's now Norton is another big tick in the NO box as well :)

[r4may]

I always do Full backups using Norton Ghost and never have any trouble with it.

Once a week I do a backup to my second HDD, and once a month I do a backup to re-writable DVD, of which I use several sets so I have the Grandfather-Father-Son of backups over three months.

I also backup the system seperate from the data.

I prefer the method of exiting windows and the backup using it's own system. This is the way that most Mainframes/Minis used to produce full backups, they only used the O/S backup for incremental backups.

This was because most backup programs will not backup any file ( program or data) that is open at the time of the backup.

[Thos]

Acronis will do all the Secure Zone creation for you, Thos. You just have to tell it where to put it. I takes a minute or so to create so don't worry if it just seems to be sitting there doing nothing.

I tried using the Secure Zone and allocated the whole of the 40GB external hard drive for it. But I presume it tries to copy the whole of the 120 GB internal hard drive, including free space because I kept getting a message that it had to stop because of the EHD had run out of space. So I have reverted to the true image and shall after the initial full back-up, create incremental back-ups until it tells me the drive is full, when I will clear it and create another full one. And so life goes on.

Thos. :)

[Chris]

This is the question I was asking regarding DI7 which does full backups each time instead of incremental ones. I still can't find if it will do the incremental ones but DI7 also takes only 10 minutes or less for 60 Gb of data and this application also works on a 5 folder system of first in, first out. You can of course bin any of them manually at any time you wish. I think I may stick it on my machine pops seeing as there is not much time saving and the fact you think its better to have a full backup each time.

DI7 does not have an incremental feature.

[CurlyWhirly]

I remember DI when I used it (don't know which number now) shut down Windows to start up its own backup program but then didn't. It somehow got stuck and wouldn't then load up itself or allow me to restart Windows. Had a devil of a job getting things going again and I can't remember how I it it but it certainly put me off the program. I always found it scary to use anyway, coming out of Windows into its own system, with its low refresh rate on screen such that it gave me headaches just from a short look at it.

You are referring to Drive Image 2001 which I used to use and I never had any trouble with it.

Having said this I prefer Drive Image 7 as you can backup from the Windows environment so it's more convenient.

I've never had any trouble with DI7 either :)