Any Questions?

[Craig]

For those of you who are not testing Vista, if you have any questions please feel free to ask.

I'm sure those testing the OS (including myself) are eager to share some information, but dont want to post about the same old topics covered on various other sites without being prompted!

[AlanHo]

I downloaded and ran the Microsoft Vista Upgrade Advisor From Here to see whether my 2 year old computer was up to the challenge.

The advisor reported that I will need to contact the vendors of the following software for possible upgrades:-

Nero 6

DVD-RAM driver (LG)

Microsoft Intellitype Pro 5

Quick Time

ATI Desktop Component

Powerpoint Partition Magic 8.0

Powertoys for XP (which is understandable)

It identifies the following devices as possible problems :-

Freedom Miniport Ethernet Controller

Maxtor USB External hard drive

Radialpoint Filter (Blueyonder malware protection)

HP Scanjet 4850

TV Tuner Card not installed

I imagine that the manufacturers of the above software and devices will be issuing patches for Vista - it will be an expensive exercise if they don't.

I would like to have a go at building a new computer and thought of doing it this coming winter - however it will need to last me for a few years and the imminence of Vista makes it imperative that the machine will cope. Is there enough information available to ensure that I obtain the appropriate hardware - or would I be better off posponing things for another year ?

[-pops-]

Alan, I have always been very disappointed with computers that were intended for one O/S and then upgraded to another which they weren't designed for. You will invariably find that there are things that are incompatible or just don't work for unknown reasons following an upgrade and try as you might, these things can never be got into a working condition.

For my own part, I will be building a single Vista machine for my son when it's finally issued. This is to enable him to state to his clients that he uses the latest Windows technology. He replaces his machines on a rotating basis but, after discussions with him the other day we decided that he will only do an early conversion to Vista if it offers his business substantial improvements over the XP machines he has at present. For the sort of work he does, we are both a bit doubtful of that.

Something that concerns me about the whole Vista scenario (that seems somewhat tautologous) is the number of versions available. I think that will cause confusion amongst a lot of potential buyers and amongst commercial builders wondering what version their customers will want as a standard.

Another thing that's off-putting is the very high price. Is that price tag going to tempt people away from an O/S that they are familiar and, in most cases, happy with?

[AlanHo]

Pops - from your comments I assume that you will await the final version of Vista before deciding on the computer spec. That being the case - I will probably do likewise.

A fairly experienced friend has mentioned that it might be better to wait and buy a proprietary tower from one of the high volume producers already loaded with Vista which will possibly be lower in cost than buying Vista plus all the computer components.

[andsome]

Alan, I have always been very disappointed with computers that were intended for one O/S and then upgraded to another which they weren't designed for. You will invariably find that there are things that are incompatible or just don't work for unknown reasons following an upgrade and try as you might, these things can never be got into a working condition.

For my own part, I will be building a single Vista machine for my son when it's finally issued. This is to enable him to state to his clients that he uses the latest Windows technology. He replaces his machines on a rotating basis but, after discussions with him the other day we decided that he will only do an early conversion to Vista if it offers his business substantial improvements over the XP machines he has at present. For the sort of work he does, we are both a bit doubtful of that.

Something that concerns me about the whole Vista scenario (that seems somewhat tautologous) is the number of versions available. I think that will cause confusion amongst a lot of potential buyers and amongst commercial builders wondering what version their customers will want as a standard.

Another thing that's off-putting is the very high price. Is that price tag going to tempt people away from an O/S that they are familiar and, in most cases, happy with?

Already made my mind up to leave well alone until such time as I need a new computer. I well remember all the problems posted here and in the other place, concerning upgrades from W98 to XP.

[-pops-]

Alan, definitely waiting until a final version of Vista is issued.

I used to to beta testing and all that stuff but I'm getting a bit old now for all that sort of thing and prefer an easy life. I am interested to see what Vista is like but, not at all enthusiastic about having it. I may change my mind when I've built the one for my son but, not expecting to change my mind. In any case, I'll wait until at least the first service pack comes out.

[ɹəuəllıʍ ʇɐb]

...

Powerpoint Partition Magic 8.0

...

You probably mean PowerQuest. Well, if my excellent Partition Magic does not run on Vista, then I do not need it at all (Vista). And I am not going to buy the rubbish that Symantec has turned it into.

By the way, for those who already have Vista installed: does Vista not let applications run in compatibility mode like XP?

[Chris]

...

Powerpoint Partition Magic 8.0

...

You probably mean PowerQuest. Well, if my excellent Partition Magic does not run on Vista, then I do not need it at all (Vista). And I am not going to buy the rubbish that Symantec has turned it into.

By the way, for those who already have Vista installed: does Vista not let applications run in compatibility mode like XP?

Honestly I'm sure one of Acronis offerings will run on Vista.

[pa1916]

I gave the lastest build of Vista a try sorry to say i find it a little complex and slow and i have a 64bit processor and 2gb of ram computer i also found it difficult to navigate never had this problem with OTHER WINDOW VERSIONS may be it's i am 60+ thats the problem. B)

[Burnsie87]

I downloaded Vista RC1 a few days ago now; had to reformat my hard drive to ntfs in order to perform an upgrade which is fair enough, but then the install took just over 5 hours. Has anyone else had this problem?

Once vista was FINALLY installed at first glance I found it to be really slow - i.e. the boot up and login times took between 3-5 minutes. The same thing happened when I tried switching users. I hope they sort this out in the final release or I definately will not be buying it!

Once I was logged in it got slightly faster but nothing really noticeable. I immediately turned off the UAC as it is just annoying! There were a couple of compatability issues, the main one being my USB modem, so I switched to using an ethernet connection that hadn't previously worked in XP, but now works fine :D

I decided to give the aero theme a try and found that it didn't actually use much more cpu speed than the windows vista basic theme, so I left it on. It's really easy on the eye and you can tell microsoft have spent a long time trying to get the front end of the OS right this time. I like the option of being able to change the taskbar colours fully as well, it's about time the user actually got to decide how their operating system looks without having to download 3rd party software!

Does anyone know of any way to speed up both the boot and logon times? Such as a registry edit?

[dagwoood]

I downloaded Vista RC1 a few days ago now; had to reformat my hard drive to ntfs in order to perform an upgrade which is fair enough, but then the install took just over 5 hours. Has anyone else had this problem?

Once vista was FINALLY installed at first glance I found it to be really slow - i.e. the boot up and login times took between 3-5 minutes. The same thing happened when I tried switching users.

Hello Burnsie87. I've found the install to be quicker than an install of XP but the boot up times are slower, especially with RC1(RC2 is a lot quicker though).

What are your system specs as you really need a high end machine to get the best out of Vista?

[Burnsie87]

Hey dagwoood,

my specs are

Celeron 2.4ghz processor

512 (soon to be 1024) mb ram

128mb graphics card (integrated lol)

Thing is, i've got aero running and it runs fine with no slowdown or anything when openiong programs, it just seems to be the boot up, log off and shut down that runs REALLY slowly.

Can you get hold of RC2 from the microsoft website or do you need to be an official beta tester to get it?

Thanks

[dagwoood]

Hi Burnsie87 :)

Your slow boot/shut-down issue is most likely to be caused by the amount of RAM you have in your system. Microsoft say the minimum amount you can run Vista on is 512MB, but you really need at least 1GB because when Vista has fully booted and you're at the Desktop it uses about 700+MB, and that's before you open any other applications. When you get the extra 512MB installed it should boot quicker.

If you have a decent USB flash drive you could try plugging that in and see if it meets the speed requirements and Vista will let you use it for the ReadyBoost function. This caches items that Vista knows you use frequently so they load from the flash drive instead of the hard drive. It wont boot any quicker but applications will load quicker.

As to RC2; you had to sign up a few months ago to receive a Beta release, and since then Microsoft have made the RC2 release available to those who signed up. The download for RC2 is no longer available from MS either as they only made it available for a couple of weeks.

[Burnsie87]

Cheers dagwoood, I've got a 512mb flash drive somewhere, I'll give that a go :) The readyboost funciton seems to be an excellent idea, hats off to Mr Gates for that one!

I've done quite a few tweaks already which has made the operating system run a lot faster, such as turning off unwanted services, using msconfig to change the startup items etc.

The registry tweaks i had for XP no longer seem to work unfortunately, including ones I used to speed up the boot, I had it booting up in about 15 seconds and logging in in about 3 seconds :D

I'm thinking of buying a laptop, should I wait until after vista is released and buy one with vista already on it or get one now with XP pro and then upgrade?

[dagwoood]

I'm thinking of buying a laptop, should I wait until after vista is released and buy one with vista already on it or get one now with XP pro and then upgrade?

I'd shop around Burnsie87 as I know some retailers will sell you a system with XP on and will upgrade you to Vista for free when it's released next year. I'm not sure whether this scheme has been introduced yet(don't think it has)but I wouldn't have thought it'd be that far off with it being nearly christmas.

The only thing to be aware of is I think(again I may be wrong on this )the version of Vista that you'll be offered is the Home Basic version and you may have to pay an additional charge if you want a better version.

Sorry I can't be more concrete as it's been a while since I read about this and haven't come across anything recently about it.

[Burnsie87]

Ahh ok mate thanks

Vista crashed on me today, I opened up my documents and it froze for 30 minutes; I would say its far from completion....

[AlanHo]

I have been reading an article on Vista in the latest issue of the Personal Computer World magazine. I will need to read it a few more times before I take it all in - but a few things jumped off the page.

Vista now includes an auto defrag programme that runs in the background and which links with a feature called superfetch which ensures the disc layout is optimised based on your own usage pattern.

Does this mean the death knell for Diskeeper - a programme I currently use with XP

Vista now is equipped with a two-way firewall and Windows Defender anti spyware.

I am attracted by this feature - if they do a reasonable job I can drop my present software.

Business and Ultimate editions of Vista includes a disc imaging back-up and recovery facility that can take a snapshot of a complete hard drive and save it elsewhere. You can use the Vista installation DVD to recover your system when necessary. You can also use the installation DVD to initiate an automated fix for a non-booting system to get back to a previously saved restore point.

This seems to duplicate the features I use Acronis for - but I am unlikely to go for the more expensive Business or Ultimate editions of Vista.

The built-in Movie Maker will burn to DVD's and will also handle HD video formats.

I use Movie Maker for simple video editing but currently have to use Nero to burn a DVD. Hence I welcome this upgrade to Movie Maker.

The interface looks very user friendly.

Do existing Vista users have any comments on the features I have highlighted and the possible demise of Diskeeper and Acronis in the long term.

[CurlyWhirly]

Vista now includes an auto defrag programme that runs in the background and which links with a feature called superfetch which ensures the disc layout is optimised based on your own usage pattern.

Does this mean the death knell for Diskeeper - a programme I currently use with XP

I have been using Diskeeper for a couple of years as it is much better than XP's version and so it looks like I won't need to buy the equivalent when I upgrade to Vista.

Business and Ultimate editions of Vista includes a disc imaging back-up and recovery facility that can take a snapshot of a complete hard drive and save it elsewhere. You can use the Vista installation DVD to recover your system when necessary. You can also use the installation DVD to initiate an automated fix for a non-booting system to get back to a previously saved restore point.

This seems to duplicate the features I use Acronis for - but I am unlikely to go for the more expensive Business or Ultimate editions of Vista.

I am currently using Drive Image 7 and it serves me well but it looks like I will have to buy a 3rd party alternative as I don't intend buying the Business and Ultimate editions of Vista - I am going for the Home Premium version.

[Chris]

Do existing Vista users have any comments on the features I have highlighted and the possible demise of Diskeeper and Acronis in the long term.

Well MSPAINT has been in Windows for yonks and if you work hard enough it can create a masterpiece. Or some people prefer to use Photoshop or other well enabled applications that are far superior to Microsoft's offering. Likewise Windows Back [NT] is also inc. in past O/S and yet people seem to go elsewhere. I'm sure the same in part will be the same for the new Windows backup, some will swear by it and some will go elsewhere.

[-pops-]

In the same way that Chris suggests, Microsoft have this habit of "borrowing" the functional bits of commercial programs and stuffing them into Windows resulting in a very poor imitation of the original with reduced operational ability.

Think of Windows CD burner, Windows backup, System Restore, the various bits of Disk Cleanup, Defragmenter. Even the wonderful Internet Explorer was derived from Netscape and, even now, relies on all sorts of aspects borrowed form other software.

Even when I do move to Vista (which is, I suppose, inevitable eventually) I will try my hardest to retain the software I am used to - and that is not necessarily that contained in Windows.

[CurlyWhirly]

In the same way that Chris suggests, Microsoft have this habit of "borrowing" the functional bits of commercial programs and stuffing them into Windows resulting in a very poor imitation of the original with reduced operational ability.

Could there be an anti-competitive case brought about if sales of Diskeeper and Norton Ghost/Acronis fall because they are already included with the Vista O/S?

[andsome]

When you bought Diskeeper did you put it onto a CD? if so you don't need to do away with it.

[CurlyWhirly]

When you bought Diskeeper did you put it onto a CD? if so you don't need to do away with it.

I don't know if the question was directed at me but I downloaded it from the website but it wouldn't make much difference if I had the CD if Diskeeper wasn't compatible with Vista.

[kokobucks]

When you bought Diskeeper did you put it onto a CD? if so you don't need to do away with it.

I don't know if the question was directed at me but I downloaded it from the website but it wouldn't make much difference if I had the CD if Diskeeper wasn't compatible with Vista.

No, but they are working on a Vista version right now. They had a mid December release planned, but obviously that has passed. We'll probably see the Vista version in the next few weeks.

If you are still eligible for upgrades you will get the Vista one for free.

[CurlyWhirly]

No, but they are working on a Vista version right now. They had a mid December release planned, but obviously that has passed. We'll probably see the Vista version in the next few weeks.

Nice to know as I don't like XP's defragger as it's very poor compared to Diskeeper and similar applications.

If you are still eligible for upgrades you will get the Vista one for free.

I don't know if I am eligible or not and I think that the product key expires after a certain length of time but I make regular backups so I'm not worried.

If I'm not eligible for a upgrade then I might just settle for the Vista defragger as it is bound to be better than XP's surely?