E-Learning

[nellie2]

I was wondering if any of you had had experience of e-learning and what your thoughts are on it.

This article talks mainly about e-learning in an educational establishment. However I am interested in e-learning in the work place.

Do you think it is effective?

Do you find you have the time to do it?

Is there somewhere you can go away from your desk to complete the e-learning or do you have to try to fit it into your working day.

Suggestions for alternatives?

I have my own views on this but would be interested to hear if anyone else has anything to say.

[-pops-]

Being the age I am and having had a fairly classical eduction, I find the e-learning and similar "multiple choice answers" way of doing things rather crude and unsatisfactory.

Some time ago the BBC did some free online computer learning courses. I enrolled for the one on Internet use and knowledge. I passed every single module first time. Does that make me an Internet expert?? Not at all. All my answers were in the single paragraph of text on the previous page or sometimes immediately above the questions. It doesn't take much brain power to retain that in the mind long enough to go to the next page to answer the question(s).

I suppose e-learning is better than an ineffectual human teacher but certainly no substitute. How do you ask questions about things you don't understand?

Having said all that, my granddaughters are well versed in multiple choice computer learning which teaches them well and they are used to it. Still no substitute for a real live teacher though and I get bombarded with questions from them all the time they are here visiting - again a good thing as it activates the brain (theirs and mine :) )

[Sir Radfordin]

The problem is that we all learn in different ways. You learn best when you know which method you are most suited to.

My view is that e-learning can be best used to backup and support 'real' teaching. It provides an ideal method of testing your understanding. It is very easy to listen to a lesson/lecture and come away thinking you have understood. Only when someone asks you about it do you realise that there are weaknesses in your knowledge.

I have got 6 PDF journal articles that may apear to have a more work-based view on e-learning. Under 1mb in total. Let me know if you wants 'em.

[nellie2]

I have got 6 PDF journal articles that may apear to have a more work-based view on e-learning. Under 1mb in total. Let me know if you wants 'em.

Yes please!!!

[moon]

I did a Learn Direct course on Frontpage web publishing which was an unadulterated load of bollox. It was a terrible experience, flakey software, creaking servers, lack of staff and useless liason. I could have acheived more by spending two days on the Frontpage manual. I only did it to get the free digital camera and it took them a year to come up with that. Learn Direct sux.

[ranger]

Moon, I tried to do that course as well to get the free camera, have never received the camera yet.

Nel I found it hard to get motivated with some elearning courses but a couple of others were quite good, I think you really have to have a good self discipline for some of the courses.

[Sir Radfordin]

Journals sent.

[moon]

Moon, I tried to do that course as well to get the free camera, have never received the camera yet.

You have to act like a bored serial killer, separated from your next victim by nothing more than a length of telephone wire. Keep phoning them. :D

[djohn]

Erm! I'm doing the "Learndirect" course that you may see advertised along the top page of PCA index page. "Complete Desktop Tutor" 7 modules + "Touch typing". Doing the course from home but can pop into the local centre at any time for personal one-on-one tuition.

I signed up for the course some 4 weeks back, managed the first two modules to date. Now either I'm a slow learner or completely thick but although this course is basic it is thorough and I found myself stuck on some of the practise answers right from the start.

First module is an introduction to "IT" this consist of 10 lessons, each one has from 8 to 20 sub-sections to go through, each section is delivered by text and voice from the flash software used for the course. If I was to sit at the PC and take a full lesson I would be there for 6 hours. Naturally, one would not do this, so take it in "Bite-size" chunks and the lesson may be spread over several days. Remember that is only one lesson out of 10 and only one module out of a total of 8.

At the end of each lesson that you complete, you then need to answer all the questions to each one in a form of True or false and these can be quite tricky if you read them too quick. For example you are offered 5 choices and asked "Which one of these statements are true" well when you speed read them 2 or 3 could be true but only 1 is definitely true and that is what caught me out on my practise runs. I was only averaging 60-70% so I needed to slow down and think about each individual question before answering.

Several of the questions require written answers and these can and do spread into 4 or 5 pages of typing.

Now we have done the first lesson of the first module we can go on to complete the other 9 lessons. Then there are task to do, this can also be several pages and when that is finished there are Assignments to do also several pages of typed work. All lessons, tasks, assignments are up-loaded to your on-line tutor for grading and comments then returned.

I think you can see it's a little more involved than what is first thought. My centre gave me 12 months to complete the course, I came home, saying to my wife, "I'll have this lot done in 2 months at the most. I badly misjudged the amount of work to be done.

I'm throughly enjoying the course and doing it at my own pace at times of the day/night I choose But because I'm self taught on PC's I'm amazed at the amount of things I do not know or understand simply because I did not learn in a structured way but jumped from A to Z filling in the middle bits as an when needed. Also I have completely forgot just how a classroom environment works. [The questions asked seem to bare no relation to the lesson you have just been through unless you apply lateral thinking].

My first assignment was "e-commerce, how does it apply to the world we live in" "Discuss!" That took 4 pages of typing even though I was as concise as possible.

Second question. "The benefits of living in an IT society. also the danger and how do we avoid this" Discuss and present arguments for and against. Another 6 pages. I thought I was supposed to be learning about PC's! :(

The next 6 modules go on to teach the "Text book method" of working with Word/access/excel/powerpoint. All this needs to be done in the correct way and fully understood before you are allowed to take advantage of using any shortcuts that are now available from within Win. XP and "Office"

Any one of these courses can be taken at any level from complete beginner through to degree level. and one module at a time or several as I am doing. Your personal tutor is only a phone call or e-mail away and in my case my tutor popped round to my home the first week to run me through the way the program works.

To date I have uploaded 12 lessons 4 tasks 10 assessments and 4 assignments. Each one has come back marked at 100% so I'm really pleased with my results so far. The lessons are now getting more difficult and I'm sure my grades will drop as I go along. I feel though, after reading the above comments that I'm really missing out on something! It is quite hard work. But I would highly recommend the course to anyone.

[Sir Radfordin]

Sorry to butt in like this but am intrerested in what Djohn is saying about the assignments! (Sad I know but I am!) Do you mean you had to write 'essay' type answers to the question?

Now for a cheeky request - if you have copy of the text used to answer the second question ("Benefits of living in an IT society") don't suppose you fancy sending me a copy of it do you?? PLEASE!!!

[nellie2]

It sounds to me Djohn, as if a lot of thought has gone into your course and it has a good support network. In fact it sounds like my ideal of e-learning. Where you can do the work at your own pace, at your own level... but still be educationally stretched and challenged.

Unfortunatley it seems to me, especially in the workplace, that companies are putting e-learning courses up on their intranet as a replacement for on the job training and classroom training. All they are really is a lot of text to read with some fancy flash thrown in.

A person will learn very little when faced with a lot of text to read, they quickly become fed up because they are getting no motivation and are unable to ask questions. The only feedback they get is how correct they are when they answer the questions at the end of a topic.

To my mind, this type of e-learning achieves very little. :(

[djohn]

Fully agree with you nel and the first part of the course seemed to start as you say. When it came to the assignments I realised that I needed to actually go and find information not included in the questions themselves. The questions set where only a guide as to the answers required, I found the use of google an immense help and needed to spend many hours reading through and taking notes on articles from educated people that had themselves debated these issues at great length.

Sir Radfordin. Yes, the assignments are exactly that. Assessments and task are from the lessons you've just been reading/listening through and although a little tricky in the way they are phrased to catch you out can be answered successfully with a good memory and lateral thinking. Unfortunately I have a poor memory and needed to re-read each question several times, try and retain all the information then go back to answer the question. The problem being that once you have started a lesson you need to come out of it to re-read the questions and this will show up as 2-3 or more attempts to do the same lesson.

Your submitted work will show how many attempts and how many "Hints" you have used to complete each lesson. For instance on the correct use of "Win. Explorer" 20 questions. My paper showed up as 6 attempts and 8 hints. Each attempt was graded starting at 55% and my final one at 100%. I think I was given full marking on this one simply because I stuck at it, refused to be beaten, [i could have stopped at any point and moved on] and the fact is was at the beginning of the course and one of the first assessments. The rest of my work so far has been 1 attempt, no hints.

The lesson and assignment work is stored within the program itself E.P. [Electronic paper] Not worked out a method of transferring it to save a copy. It's a bit like PDF documents that you read on screen but can't alter. With these you have a similar document but with dialogue boxes in which you can type your answer. The box is small to start with but then expands as you fill it out and will do so for as many pages as you need. When I come to do the assessments on working with "Word" itself then I will be using my own word processor instead of the "Flash program" and e-mailing the finished work to the tutor.

If I can work out how to run off a copy then you are more than welcome, if not then toward the end of next week I will open the software and "Word" at the same time, type out my answer [Copy/paste will not work from the program, too easy to cheat :) ] and mail to you. It's not a problem and will help me as well to redo the work as some of it is already slipping out of memory. :(

I think it only fair to point out, my education was very poor, left school at 14 with no qualifications at all, even failed my 11 + exam, in fact the only entry I made on the papers was my name and School, then I sat through the whole exam looking out of the window. :blush: Started with PC's a little over three years back and with the help of the people here and in PCA have started to understand them, I hope the course will fill in all the missing bits. Must admit when I looked at the first assignment I froze, I have never had any one say to me, "e-commerce-discuss" If this had been in a controlled exam environment I would have stood up and walked out of the classroom to hide forever in shame. :lol:

[nellie2]

Isn't it great though when you get past that first sticky hurdle and then you seem to be on a roll........ well done Djohn and I shall be interested to hear updates of how you are getting along.

Ps..... did you try keyboard shortcuts for copy and paste? Ctrl C and Ctrl V?? I'm not suggesting you cheat and I know you wouldn't but at least you would be able to save a copy of your work for yourself. :)

[djohn]

I did nel, not to cheat but to save my poor old fingers from a large amount of typing. All my work from now on will be from my own programs/applications and I will be using Office XP to do all my presentations from powerpoint. Formatting, copy/paste, indents and bullets from word.

The electronic paper application I use at the moment is via a live feed on broadband, you need to log in/out to use it. Because the course has not yet reached the stage of formatting/tables and graphs etc. you can't alter anything. If you notice a mistake then you can only insert your cursor at the beginning/end of a paragraph and use the del. or backspace key to wipe out the whole paragraph. Try to highlight a word and the whole page lights up :lol:

It is to stop you from doing a copy/paste from the example papers, can't even do a spell check in it! As I mentioned above though this will soon change as my work will be via my applications and e-mail. One point I forgot to mention. There is a 24/7 phone-line (Free) to call for help when stuck. Quite a few times last week I was chatting away at 2-3am to receive help. :rolleyes:

[djohn]

For sir Rad.

I have typed out a couple of short paragraph from two of the questions asked and my answers. Sorry I can't type out any more but my fingers have had it for today. :(

This will at least give you an idea of what the course is about. This is a basic course in IT and use of Computers. It's a first for me, I had to do a lot of hard thinking to get my brain in gear and approach the questions in the correct way. j.

Who benefits from the transition to an information society? What problems may arise?

Everyone should benefit from an information society. IT is shaping the 21st. century and changing the world we live in. It will affect the way we live, learn and work. We will gain from the vast amount of knowledge that is available. Not only government, commerce, and industry but each individual will have the potential to increase their understanding of the world we live in.

Unfortunately not everyone may have access to the tools that are required or knowledge to use them. This may lead to a bigger division between the western society and developing countries that are without the basic requirements of electricity, telecommunications and education standards.

The IT society will involve gross invasion of personal privacy: Discuss.

Everything we do from birth to death will be kept on record. Education, marriage/divorce, employment details, minor and serious offences, medical records, financial details and even our politics will be recorded and accessible to other people. This happens now of course but with the advance of information technology all this will be instantly available to anyone with the means of obtaining it. We need to be certain that only those that require and have good reasons for doing so, are able to access the minimum amount necessary to achieve their aim.

The information society will make all our lives more transparent. The lack of confidence in maintaining our privacy may lead to the undermining of the development of the IT society unless we can be assured our basic right of privacy is not to be intruded on. The level of protection must be fair and equal to all levels of society if it is to succeed. Only by having this guarantee of privacy, and assurance it will not be abused will we feel free to take an active role in the future of IT.

[nellie2]

I thought we did have a guarantee of privacy..... the Data Protection Act ..... sorry we are weaving a touch off topic here but this is interesting.

I would say the gross invasion of privacy comes more from unsolicited emails, browser hijacking, software bundled with spyware.... scams like the 419ers etc etc. But is this any different than it was before the electronic age?

There have always been accessable public records, infact it is only since the inception of the Data Protection Act that those records have been looked at and out of date information destroyed.

Junk mail and people asking you to complete a survey in the high street have always been a problem.

Innocent people have been scammed one way or another ever since we invented money.

A good salesperson can convince a good percentage of the population to buy what they think you should buy and not necessarily what you want.

So no, I don't think these ills are the result of the electronic age.... its just that people are taking advantage in a different way.

[djohn]

Again, I agree nel but many people are still afraid of their personal information being held in an electric form that can be instantly accessed. Yes, the data protection act should protect us but will it. Will the right information/details go only to the person that has requested them or will it be available for others to see.

Personally I have no problem with all my details being available but I do want to have a say in who can look at what. Your last post has helped me by outlining further topics to debate on within the course. Thank you. :)

[Edit] I think you know nel, I do the accounts for our small social fund. I use Excel to keep a record of all money collected/donated and all expenses for entertainment and outings etc. The small program that I have made will add/deduct as I move down the named cells and total a balance paid into the bank then any cash/cheques withdrawn. Each month I print out a balance sheet and this fully detailed sheet goes into a loose-leaf binder. At the end of the year I have a 12 page ledger to show at the annual meeting of the committee, also a floppy to hand over to the housing association to be checked by their accountants.

So far this all sounds fine but we have the same 4 or 5 Tennant's each year who will complain that I should be doing it all in long-hand in a ledger book that can be seen and touched. They somehow feel that I'm keeping the accounts on the computer and if anything should happen to me they would not be able to access them. Computers frighten them. Proper audited accounts and the names of all the Tennant's are held on the PC but as I say above, each month a print-out is done also at least once a week the accounts are backed up to a floppy and handed over to the warden or as she is now known (Scheme Manager) :lol:

Everyones name and birthday are also on my PC. This allows the automatic reminder of when a birthday card is due to be printed and delivered. I have been given the privilege of holding a lot of personal data regarding my neighbours (DPA details taken care of by our Housing association).

If anyone ever wants to look at some detail or other regarding accounts/outings/entertainment I invite them in and bring it up on-screen to show in all it's glory. They look at the screen for a mo. then say.

"I really don't understand how computers work, can you print it out for me please" :(

[nellie2]

I can understand that worry, but it is unauthorised access that they should be concerned about.... how secure are our databases etc.

There are eight main data protection principles, they say that data must be:

1. fairly and lawfully processed;

2. processed for limited purposes;

3. adequate, relevant and not excessive;

4. accurate;

5. not kept for longer than is necessary;

6. processed in line with your rights;

7. secure; and,

8. not transferred to countries without adequate protection.

By law, data controllers have to keep to these principles.

User friendly site here about the Information Comissioner

[djohn]

Hi nel, I've just edited my post above to give a little more info. Funny that. The third question in the first module was.

Name the main principles of the data protection act. :lol:

[nellie2]

"I really don't understand how computers work, can you print it out for me please" 

:D

Which brings us back to learning!!!

As I've said... your course sounds really good and you sound motivated and committed enough to see it through. The e-learning I have had sight of so far is more work based and not very adequate as far as I'm concerned in the style it is being presented in at the moment.

Would the people who say they don't understand computers be willing to try to learn do you think or have they given up without even trying?

Do they think you are slightly nutty because of your facination with IT? I know some of my friends do.

[djohn]

Yes, they do, not all of them but a few do think this way. Last year Age concern and Microsoft Gave our small housing scheme a new PC complete with printer/scanner/and paid for internet access. Of the 48 Tennant's average age 75 only 6 have shown an interest. The PC is in our "Common Room" and each person has access to this room 24 hours per day with an electronic swipe card.

The 6 that took interest from the start are still working hard at becoming IT specialist and really enjoying themselves. With a little help from me, (Couple of hours each week) they are coming along at a very fast pace. The ones that didn't show any interest from the start still don't want to know, even though they all have children and grandchildren all over the world who would like to keep in touch. :(

So yes, they have given up before even looking let alone trying. :(

PS: This was when I phoned M/S and explained what I would be doing, just a little teaching each week and was I entitled to use XP Pro. (Up-grade) that I had bought at a student/teacher price. They said yes I was and gave me a new product key over the phone to turn the up-grade into a full retail version. 2 days later I received from them with their compliments "Office XP Professional" and "Publisher" They said in the compliment slip.

"A small gift to you from us to help others" Got it framed! :lol: