Forthcoming European elections

[andsome]

The elections are nearly upon us. It would be interesting to see what the consensus of opinion is amongst the forum members.

My own views are as follows.

Ted Heath's government took us into 'The common Market', a proposed free trade area. Harold Wilson later held a referendum as to whether we should stay in 'The Common Market'. At NO time was any mention made that the eventual aim was a federal state of Europe, governed from Strasbourg and Brussels. In other words we were not told the complete story.

During the last several years our sovereignty has been steadily whittled away, leaving more and more control in the hands of an UNELECTED commission of civil servants. The European Parliament is at best a rubber stamp for Commission decisions. We are told that we would have mass unemployment if we were not members of the E.U. How is it then that countries outside the E.U. exist perfectly well and trade with each other AND with the E.U? The various E.U. countries trade quite happily with the rest of the world, even though the rest of the world is NOT part of the E.U. This makes nonsense of claims that we would be bankrupt, and suffer mass unemployment if we left the E.U. In fact at present we probably drink more wine from the New World than we do from Europe, just as one example, so where does membership benefit European wine makers? Our fishing industry has been decimated, and fishermen are in the ludicrous position of having to throw back into the sea, millions of dead fish because they are considered to be undersized. They then have to carry on catching more fish, many of these which also have to thrown back, in order to try and make good their total catch. We have lost millions of acres of apple and pear orchards and now import tasteless yucky French golden delicious apples instead. Our chocolate manufacturers had to fight tooth and nail in order to be allowed to export their products to Europe, and to keep on calling the product chocolate. Our brewing industry had also to fight tooth and nail to carry on calling their product BEER, because we use different recipes to European brewers. More and more farmers are packing up and moving instead to places like North America and Canada. The history of the commission to date is one of meddle, meddle, meddle.

We must not forget the gravy train. Neil Kinnock was very anti Europe, until he and his wife landed jobs at absolutely ridiculous salaries. Now with thousands of other civil servants they are riding a salary gravy train with a bottomless pit of money. There are certainly many thousands of people doing very nicely out of pushing pieces of paper round and round in circles all day long.

A couple of times a year everything has to be packed up and shifted between Strasbourg and Brussels, so that both cities can have a turn at housing the so called parliament. This costs many millions of pounds of OUR money.

We are getting less and less say in our own destinies, and also in how we spend our own money. It won't be long before we no longer need a chancellor of the exchequer as such, because our taxes will be decided by a committee of foreigners.

Last but not least. Just how much is it going to cost us to drag the newcomers up to our standards? We are told that all these newcomers offer colossal trade opportunities. How do they, we have been perfectly free to trade with these people until now, just what benefit does their membership of the club offer?

The only way that I can see a bright and prosperous future for Britain is to get out of this bloated money grabbing club. To this end I will be voting for the U.K. Independence Party. Liberal Democrats can't wait to hand over our last vestige's of sovereignty, Labour has done nothing to stop the rot, and has in fact given away more and more of our rights, the Tories are just doing VERY little to stem the tide.

Rant over. Opinions please.

[pwp]

couldn't agree more.

most people voted to stay in as they thought it was to late to go back.

what jobs arn't going to India are going to europe and the rest are now going to

imigrant workers from estern bloc contries as they will work for buttons.

seems to me we get to pay all the taxes that come out of Brussels but

when its time to reap the benifits, ie employment law it's vetoed by the

goverment. (dosn't matter which one is in )

[Sir Radfordin]

For the first time since turning 18 I feel that there is some benefit in making the effort to vote. However having said that don't feel I have had enough information made available to me to really make an informed choice.

In the local elections there isn't much choice mostly due to the area I live in but that choice will be made for a local candidate more than the party which they stand for.

In all honesty I don't believe any of the parties offer any real hope of change. They are all too busy trying to prove those that went before them wrong whilst keeping their popularity. The term of office is too short to give an opportunity to make real change.

[catgate]

I have expressed my views, probably very boringly and in great detail, on

http://www.angelfire.com/realm3/accord/

To any one who decides to go and look I apologise in advance that there are no bells and whistles, it is not like our government, "all bunting and frollicks".

[andsome]

Looks interesting, I'll have a good look round there when I have the time.

[moon]

As I feel that there is no greater issue than that of the environment I'll be voting Green. Luckily, there is a Green candidate up here in the East Midlands. If there weren't I'd be voting UK Ind. just to try to shock the government into listening to the people.

[r4may]

It's Got to be the UKIP: I would realy Love NOT to be a part of the EU.

We are the only contry that really follow the rules, the others Just ignore the ones that don't suit them :wub:

[expertec]

Getting out of the EU would be good, but voting UKIP isn't going to do it

[The Grump]

How much of the first post in this thread has been plagiarized from the UKIP web site?

Most of it I would say.

[andsome]

Getting out of the EU would be good, but voting UKIP isn't going to do it

It's got a damned site better chance than voting Tory,Lib Dem or Labour. I appreciate that the Independence Party is NOT the government, but if enough of their candidates get into the EU Parliament, it might make our government sit up a bit.

[Hurdy]

I shall be voting UKIP.

I hope enough people do so the big three parties realise the amount of disatisfaction there is in the country regarding the EU .

Hopefully when the General Election comes round the major political parties agendas will reflect the wishes of the people.

Some hope I know.

[expertec]

A vote for UKIP is a wasted vote.

[Tankus]

looks like there is a bloody tube strike on the day too

BBC

[Hurdy]

A vote for UKIP is a wasted vote.

Maybe not in London

A breakdown of a YouGov poll placed UKIP on 23 per cent in London, Labour on 21 per cent and the Lib Dems on 19. The Conservatives were on 32 per cent.

[Tankus]

from Hurdys link

There's deep disenchantment." Mr Kilroy-Silk claimed there were at least a dozen Tory MPs who shared common cause with UKIP. He said that Tory leader Michael Howard had called such MPs "gadflies and extremists". Mr Kilroy-Silk added: "That's what your party leader thinks of you because you want Britain to be a sovereign independent state. Why don't you put your courage where your convictions are?

"Why don't you stop sulking in secret in the corridors of Westminster and come out of the closet? This is the best opportunity you will ever have to get our country back from Brussels."

Asked if a defection was a serious possibility, Mr Kilroy-Silk replied: "I would have thought so. We are in talks."

Pity any Tory "soon to be but f***** " MP that talks to Kilroy ....It will be secret for at least the time it takes for him to phone up the BBC for an exclusive interview.

Right about the lack of honesty...everywhere though

[The Grump]

Voting for the UKIP is no better than voting for the BNP, both are racialist parties.

Kilroy-Silk is the smiling face of racialism.

[Tankus]

I dont understand how it works ...It Kilroys bunch gets elected to the Euro trough ...does that mean that they dont turn up for work ....but take the paycheque at the end of the day ...?

[andsome]

Voting for the UKIP is no better than voting for the BNP, both are racialist parties.

Kilroy-Silk is the smiling face of racialism.

Just because Kilroy thingy is a member of a particular party in NO way makes it racist. I shall vote in my usual way in the council elections. Europe however is a different kettle of fish. I amongst many millions of others firmly believe that there is EVERYTHING to be gained by being in a common market, and that is precisely what we voted for. We do NOT however want to be part of a federal state of Europe. We do NOT want our taxes, our defence, or ANY of our laws decided by a sundry committee of UNELECTED civil servants from foreign country's. Let's face it, things are bad enough when the committee is from the original bunch of members, just how much worse will it get now that that committee will be drawn from sundry other states? All these other states have everything to gain by bleeding us all dry to improve their standards of living. Do you honestly want your taxes and your laws decided in future by Czechs, Poles, Lithuanians, etc as well as by Belgians, French, Italians, Germans etc? There is NOTHING racist whatsoever in wanting British people to run Britain, and I defy you to say otherwise. I love to visit Europe, but I don't want these people to rule us.

[andsome]

I dont understand how it works ...It Kilroys bunch gets elected to the Euro trough ...does that mean that they dont turn up for work ....but take the paycheque at the end of the day ...?

Why should it. The whole idea is that the U.K. Independence party can better speak for Britain by being just what the name implies, INDEPENDENT. They can hopefully prevent further integration of this once great nation into a totally corrupt gravy train system that is called the European Union, as I have said before, we voted to be in THE COMMON MARKET, NOT, The Federal State of Europe!

[expertec]

They can hopefully prevent...

They can't do anything

[andsome]

They can hopefully prevent...

They can't do anything

If we have the common sense to make them the largest British voice in the sham of a parliament in Europe, then they could prevent the handover of further sovereignty to all these other countries. This may hopefully influence whatever the then current British government thinks about this monolith of corruption. Who knows we may eventually end up with a trading agreement, which is what the majority of British citizens want. Why don't we all at least give it a try?

[AlanHo]

Having been back in the UK for only 5 years after 15 years as an expatriate I am perhaps more acutely aware of the changes made to Britain over the last 20 years than those who have lived here permanently and had them foisted upon them gradually. It came as a shock and it has taken time for me to adjust.

I agree entirely with andsome – he has said all that I could say about our involvement with Europe – but we are of similar age - so maybe that has something to do with it.

I feel that if the younger members of our society (who are getting increasingly left wing liberal and PC) want to give up their independence and be ruled by foreigners – it is they who will have to live with the consequences - not old farts like myself.

[catgate]

not old farts like myself.

I too am a boring old fart, but I think that we BOFs have seen and experienced much more than the younger folk, and thus have a better picture of what has happened, and as a result what can happen in the future as a result of certain actions. It is really building up knowledge based on 'experienced' history. It seems to me that the majority of BOFs are anti EU as a result of this experience, (which also includes a valid assessment of the worth of politicians en mass).

However, as far as being part of the THE COMMON MARKET is concerned, since geographically we are, and always have been, part of Europe, then we have always been part of a "common" market, just as we have always been part of a World Common Market, and, as someone pointed out earlier, business will always buy at the most advantageous price/quality, where ever the goods are located. The only benefit that can come out of this European Common Market is the common currency, which unfortunately we are not going into without going into the rest of the morasse. The only beneficiaries of differing currencies are the banks.

The myth, concerning the idea that acceptance of a common currency will "equalise" prices and ruin our industry, is complete hogwash. We have a common currency in the UK but prices can, and do, vary enormously from area to area (officially recognised in London weighting allowances).

Currency is simply a series of tokens, the use of which facilitate the barter of labour and/or services for goods, rather than goods for goods, and the value of labour/services/goods varies within a country as well as without. Changing the name of the units and tinkering about with their exchange rates has absolutely no effect on the number of hour of work necessary to produce a given product, and hence can have no effect on "the Economy" inside or outside of any trading group.

I have already voted. But not for the BNP, because unfortunately, whilst they have many good ideas they are in the main not really BOFs themselves, and have the wildness of youth upon them. (As did New Labour and as have the Greens etc today)