Beware of AOL's fine print

[scuzzman]

I am not sure about you but I don't spend a lot of time reading EULAs.

The EULA, or "End-User License Agreement," is the yadda yadda yadda that you agree to when you install software on your computer. It's usually pages and pages of stuff that no one reads.

If you click you agree, then the software installs. If you click that you do not, the installation terminates. (So it's not like you get to negotiate the terms.)

It just came to light that America Online's lawyers, in what had to be a loss of sanity, amended the terms of service for AIM, its instant messenger service. It now says, (get this) that America Online now has the rights to any content that flows through the service.

"You waive any right to privacy. You waive any right to inspect or approve uses of the content or to be compensated for any such uses," according to the AIM terms of service

There are stories of AOL's rebuttal to the surge of blogs and stories about this horrendous clause in there new EULA here and here.

[andsome]

I wouldn't touch AOL with a barge pole. Their software made it impossible for me to get on line when my son gave me his old computer some years ago. He had tried to uninstall it so that I could use NTL. We had to reinstall Windows 98SE. NEVER AGAIN. There was a phone in programme on the radio several years ago, concerning problems with AOL. The radio station was inundated with complaints.

[CurlyWhirly]

I wouldn't touch AOL with a barge pole.  Their software made it impossible for me to get on line when my son gave me his old computer some years ago.  He had tried to uninstall it so that I could use NTL.  We had to reinstall Windows 98SE.  NEVER AGAIN.  There was a phone in programme on the radio several years ago, concerning problems with AOL.  The radio station was inundated with complaints.

I have been with AOL for over 3 years with NO problems.

[scuzzman]

I wouldn't touch AOL with a barge pole.  Their software made it impossible for me to get on line when my son gave me his old computer some years ago.  He had tried to uninstall it so that I could use NTL.  We had to reinstall Windows 98SE.  NEVER AGAIN.  There was a phone in programme on the radio several years ago, concerning problems with AOL.  The radio station was inundated with complaints.

I have been with AOL for over 3 years with NO problems.

Until you uninstall it.

[deuces wild]

I wouldn't touch AOL with a barge pole.  Their software made it impossible for me to get on line when my son gave me his old computer some years ago.  He had tried to uninstall it so that I could use NTL.  We had to reinstall Windows 98SE.  NEVER AGAIN.  There was a phone in programme on the radio several years ago, concerning problems with AOL.  The radio station was inundated with complaints.

I have been with AOL for over 3 years with NO problems.

How much are you paying with AOL compared to a local ISP for dial up service? Here in the States we can get unlimited dial up for under $10 vs. the $25 or so AOL charges.

[CurlyWhirly]

I have been with AOL for over 3 years with NO problems.

Until you uninstall it.

I have tried uninstalling AOL a while back, and I had no problem doing so.

I was left with a few registry entries, but I used Registry Clean Pro which cleared these up for me.

[CurlyWhirly]

Deuces Wild

How much are you paying with AOL compared to a local ISP for dial up service? Here in the States we can get unlimited dial up for under $10 vs. the $25 or so AOL charges.

Firstly, I would never go back to dial-up :o

I am in the UK and I currently pay £29.99 for a 1mb broadband package.

This will be reduced to £24.99 shortly as my telephone line won't support 2mb, so I will be downgraded in price for the same service.

Going back to the original post, I don't really care whether AOL monitor my AIM's, as I rarely use them anyway.

[djohn]

Don't worry Curly. AOL is a bit of an hot potato with some people. I was with them for 3 years, no problems at all with the dial up and so easy to remove the software from ones machine. I really don't know how these scare stories about removing it get spread around.

I think people would be surprised as to how many well known and respected people use AOL because of its simplicity and ease of use when set up correct. :)

[andsome]

I wouldn't touch AOL with a barge pole.  Their software made it impossible for me to get on line when my son gave me his old computer some years ago.  He had tried to uninstall it so that I could use NTL.  We had to reinstall Windows 98SE.  NEVER AGAIN.  There was a phone in programme on the radio several years ago, concerning problems with AOL.  The radio station was inundated with complaints.

I have been with AOL for over 3 years with NO problems.

Until you uninstall it.

This, as I said was the problem. The helpline at NTL tried everything to get me on line, all to no avail. The local shop had a go and failed, so they reinstalled Windows for me. AOL, NEVER AGAIN.

[-pops-]

Even ignoring the technical aspects of the AOL service, one of the big difficulties, certainly in the UK, is trying to stop them removing money from your bank account when you no longer use their facilities.

I can't remember what the financial agreement is called (it is different to a direct debit, standing order or any of the usual agreements) but it effectively gives AOL the right to extract money in perpetuity from your account and I have known people who have had to change their bank accounts to stop this happening. In one case I'm aware of, AOL even sent threatening letters to the estate of a person who had died demanding money for a service that they had not delivered.

[CurlyWhirly]

Even ignoring the technical aspects of the AOL service, one of the big difficulties, certainly in the UK, is trying to stop them removing money from your bank account when you no longer use their facilities.

I am sorry but I amazed by this, I currently pay by Direct Debit.

I was originally paying by Debit Card, but at my request, they altered the payment method.

Now if I changed ISP's, all I would do is inform them of the fact that I am cancelling the Direct Debit after the compulsory 30 days notice and move on to another ISP.

If it is so difficult to migrate, then how come Djohn had no trouble leaving them then, as he will probably tell you himself :unsure:

[-pops-]

Even ignoring the technical aspects of the AOL service, one of the big difficulties, certainly in the UK, is trying to stop them removing money from your bank account when you no longer use their facilities.

I am sorry but I amazed by this, I currently pay by Direct Debit.

I was originally paying by Debit Card, but at my request, they altered the payment method.

Now if I changed ISP's, all I would do is inform them of the fact that I am cancelling the Direct Debit after the compulsory 30 days notice and move on to another ISP.

If it is so difficult to migrate, then how come Djohn had no trouble leaving them then, as he will probably tell you himself :unsure:

I understand that they have several payments methods with one that they favour over anything else and the one they use when you take up their special offer free trials. It is this that is the cause of the problems. I can't go into the minutiae of this because I don't know them but, I do know people who have been caught out.

[deuces wild]

Even ignoring the technical aspects of the AOL service, one of the big difficulties, certainly in the UK, is trying to stop them removing money from your bank account when you no longer use their facilities.

I can't remember what the financial agreement is called (it is different to a direct debit, standing order or any of the usual agreements) but it effectively gives AOL the right to extract money in perpetuity from your account and I have known people who have had to change their bank accounts to stop this happening. In one case I'm aware of, AOL even sent threatening letters to the estate of a person who had died demanding money for a service that they had not delivered.

We got a trial membership to AOL when my wife bought her computer. The service was cancelled prior to expiring.

My daughter later used one of the AOL user names on instant messenger and we were subsequently charged a full month of service by AOL. Their reason? By using the user name on instant messenger the basic AOL service restarted.

AOL...AOHell.

The Ohio Attorney Generals office has a class action lawsuit against AOL for the exact reasons being discussed here.

Don't worry Curly. AOL is a bit of an hot potato with some people.

And with good reason.

[djohn]

Yes, Curly is right pops. I must have been lucky because I was on dial-up and phoned to cancel my account, they asked why, I said I was going B/B and there were some good offers from other companies.

AOL was asking (I think) £26.99 for broadband back then, they said if I would stay with them I could have it for £19.00 per month. I jumped at the offer as it was excellent at the time. I let PCA know about it in the forums, dozens of AOL members thanked me and contacted AOL and got the same deal.

PCA staff picked up on it and ran a short article in the mag and forum but could not get AOL to admit it was an offer open to all, even though they never turned anyone down when asked.

4 months into a 12 month contract I wanted to cancel, it had not performed as I had expected. They released me from my contract without penalty and although they closed my Broadband account the same day they left me on free unlimited dial up for 12 days extra as I had paid for that month, also to give me time to contact people to tell them of my change of address.

On the last day of the month I received a letter from them thanking me for three years of being a good customer, wished me luck with my new ISP and said I would be welcome back at any time.

Oh. They did make a mistake once with my billing, they debited my account twice in one month, but because it was before I had received my bank statement, I didn't even know about it when they phoned to apologise. I said it was OK, these things happen. Their reply was, yes, but it shouldn't and gave me a free month as compensation.

[-pops-]

OK, I've looked a bit more into this.

The unusual payment system that AOL use and their (much) preferred method is called Continuous Payment Authority (CPA).

With this, there is no way of cancelling payments being made from the account to which the CPA refers, not even death and they even try to pursue for payment beyond the grave.

There is only one way to get out of it and that is by closing the account and removing all contact with, and references to, it.

[deuces wild]

When you cancel make sure you get a cancellation number and keep it handy.....you will need to have to reference it in the near future when you continue to get billed.

Also ask that the cancellation be verified via email or letter.

Lastly, make sure to include *all* family member names *and* user names/nicks when making the cancellation, making sure you put it in writing.

Too bad that AOL uses all available loopholes to continue to bill you. Speaks loudly of their integrity. :rolleyes:

Do a google of AOL scams and you will come up with over 300,000 hits. Pretty revealing. :blink:

AOL will never be on my preferred ISP list. They can go to AOHell.

Signed

A used and abused former customer.

[andsome]

The real answer surely is not to use AOL in the first place. Anyone reading this thread TAKE NOTE.

[ɹəuəllıʍ ʇɐb]

Well, I don't know anybody who uses AOL.

But then, last November, many Americans also said that they didn't know anyone who voted for Bush... :ninja:

(Stroked above out, as I do not want to start any political debate here).

[CurlyWhirly]

OK, I've looked a bit more into this.

The unusual payment system that AOL use and their (much) preferred method is called Continuous Payment Authority (CPA).

With this, there is no way of cancelling payments being made from the account to which the CPA refers, not even death and they even try to pursue for payment beyond the grave.

I am not sure whether this is even legal, as how can they expect someone to pay for internet access when they are dead :blink:

I will find out one way or the other, as when (and if) I change ISP's in the future, I will then see whether all of these horror stories are true or not.

I will leave it at that :rolleyes:

[andsome]

I heard that they even send someone to the funeral, to see if the ex customer is really dead or not. :huh: :huh: :huh:

[-pops-]

To know more about CPA look at:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/moneybox/2099270.stm

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=256

http://www.naafi-financial.com/news/news.asp?ID=37

[djohn]

Just to keep everything in perspective, so that we do not become an "I hate AOL" forum. CPA is not something that AOL has dreamt up to relieve us all of all our cash. Its more to do with the credit card companies and applies to any customer who sets up a CPA or monthly repayment with any company, not just AOL.

If you manage to see some of the commercials on TV offering goods on a monthly basis, you will nearly always see, Pay by debit card or standing order and get the first three issues free, pay by credit card and get an extra two issue free.

I think that anyone seeing something like that will ask themselves why? If they don't, they should do. CPA has been around for a long time, companies prefer this method of payment, thats why they offer further inducements to use it. AOL did inform me that I could pay my account in several ways, they did not at any time try to push one in preference to the other. I chose to give my bank account to set up a direct debit simply because I was looking at my cheque book on my desk at the time of the phone call.

As an aside. If you apply to a company over the phone and set up a monthly repayment using your debit card, debit, not credit, then its justs as difficult to stop. I know as I have just spent the last four months dealing with this for my son. The only benefit was that his bank re credited his account each month with the same amount of money that was being taken out, even the bank could not stop the payments without going through a very long drawn out procedure. :(

[deuces wild]

Just to keep everything in perspective, so that we do not become an "I hate AOL" forum.....

Darn it....and we were just starting to have fun. :D

[andsome]

Just to keep everything in perspective, so that we do not become an "I hate AOL" forum.....

Darn it....and we were just starting to have fun. :D

How can you NOT hate a company that has caused so much bother?

[deuces wild]

Exactly.