It is not Bushes fault at all

[catgate]

What I find very sad, and also very worrying, is that there are so many people who read with their eyes only, leaving their brains in neutral.

As a result of this, 'patriotic fervour' can replace logic and reason. For example. There are thousands of men who support "their" football club. But it is usually owned by someone who has no connection with the town and is usually managed/coached by a man also from far, far away, and all the players are probably similarly imported from god knows where. And yet they can do no wrong.

More often than not the reports in the media, on topics as varied as wars/pile treatments/pensions/politics are written knowing how little understanding will go into the reading of them, and thus it is very easy to create a totally erronious "supporters club".

America did not drop the atom bomb on Japan. It was dropped by an American airman flying in an American plane obeying instructions from the American president. The population of America were as surprised as the Japanese when it happened.

The English/Americans did not start the slave trade. It was started by African native chiefs. There were men living in England and America who took part in it. The countries themselves took no part.

Germany did not start either the first world war or the second world war. They were both started by country's deranged rulers.

Yet all these and thousands of other myths have been created simply by reading, or listening, with the critical faculty switched off. So ingrained is this that sometimes mentation can occur in a similar state.

[andsome]

I think we will have to agree to differ on this subject.

No .? , Not really , Sure you're perfectly entitled to your opinion "Sure" but my question is: "What differance does it make to you , All the way over there in the UK.?" "Why don't you just worry about your own affairs and stop worrying about what's happening here.?"

I don't want to comment anymore here , It would be just like adding more coals to the steam engine..

We worry because we are not insular. The world is smaller now than it ever was due to the speed at which we can travel. Dubya has exerted an unholy hold over his poodle B'liar and this is detrimental to the UK. I think that if asked, the majority of people in the UK would say that it is a good thing that Dubya has been reigned in a little. I am concerned of course with what happens in the UK, but am also concerned about what happens in the rest of the world. I don't honestly think that the US minds its own business do you? I think that it is unfortunate that you and DW appear to take yourselves too seriously. Nothing said on here will have any great influence on events, this is just a small number of people who air their own views and debate various subjects. I am certainly not going to get in a lather and upset myself because some disagree with me. Lighten up a little. :) :) :)

What I find very sad, and also very worrying, is that there are so many people who read with their eyes only, leaving their brains in neutral.

As a result of this, 'patriotic fervour' can replace logic and reason. For example. There are thousands of men who support "their" football club. But it is usually owned by someone who has no connection with the town and is usually managed/coached by a man also from far, far away, and all the players are probably similarly imported from god knows where. And yet they can do no wrong.

More often than not the reports in the media, on topics as varied as wars/pile treatments/pensions/politics are written knowing how little understanding will go into the reading of them, and thus it is very easy to create a totally erronious "supporters club".

America did not drop the atom bomb on Japan. It was dropped by an American airman flying in an American plane obeying instructions from the American president. The population of America were as surprised as the Japanese when it happened.

The English/Americans did not start the slave trade. It was started by African native chiefs. There were men living in England and America who took part in it. The countries themselves took no part.

Germany did not start either the first world war or the second world war. They were both started by country's deranged rulers.

Yet all these and thousands of other myths have been created simply by reading, or listening, with the critical faculty switched off. So ingrained is this that sometimes mentation can occur in a similar state.

Very sensible and very profound contribution to the thread. I posted before this appeared.

[deuces wild]

What I find very sad, and also very worrying, is that there are so many people who read with their eyes only, leaving their brains in neutral.

I agree. You should use your brain when reading this:

CAIRO, Egypt (AP) -- Al-Qaida in Iraq claimed in a new audio tape Friday to be winning the war faster than expected in Iraq, saying it had mobilized 12,000 fighters.

The group also said it welcomed the Republican electoral defeat that led to the departure of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, and it added that its fighters would not rest until they had blown up the White House.

Abu Ayyub al-Masri, also known as Abu Hamza al-Muhajir, also urged the U.S. to stay in Iraq so his group would have more opportunities to kill American troops.

"The al-Qaida army has 12,000 fighters in Iraq, and they have vowed to die for God's sake," a man introduced as al-Muhajir said in an audio tape made available on militant Web sites.

"We will not rest from our Jihad until we are under the olive

trees of Rumieh and we have blown up the filthiest house -- which is called the White House," al-Muhajir said.

http://tinyurl.com/y3hnfl

They want you dead, your family dead, your friends dead and all those who do not worship Ala dead.

Someday, maybe someday, the ill informed will get it.

[catgate]

They want you dead, your family dead, your friends dead and all those who do not worship Ala dead.

Who do? All those people who do worship Ala (a comune of Trento Province, Italy)? Or their leaders? Or just some of vociferous power seeking trouble makers? They do not know I exist. They may not even know that you exist!

You have just proved my point.

[deuces wild]

Proved your point? If your point was that you have your head in the sand then I guess I did. :lol:

[Tankus]

In two and a half years the American government is going to admit Iraq was a major mistake ...

and if the rozzers at the yard have done their job good ...bliar will be in Parkhurst at her majesties pleasure

[The Grump]

I think we will have to agree to differ on this subject.

No .? , Not really , Sure you're perfectly entitled to your opinion "Sure" but my question is: "What differance does it make to you , All the way over there in the UK.?" "Why don't you just worry about your own affairs and stop worrying about what's happening here.?"

I don't want to comment anymore here , It would be just like adding more coals to the steam engine..

People post their own thoughts and opinions on a topic, be it, Bush, Blair, the UK, USA, Iraq, or Uncle Tom Cobbley. Whether or not it’s the opinion you want, or like to read, it’s not for you to decide.

[Tankus]

JC

All the way over there in the UK.?" "Why don't you just worry about your own affairs and stop worrying about what's happening here.?"

what happens in the US has a significant impact on our country's foreign policy under bliar .....

If there is a democratic led investigation over the US involvement in Iraq , its results could prove politically embarrassing for our beloved , and it would leave him in a difficult position in denying us one .................

[deuces wild]

I think we will have to agree to differ on this subject.

No .? , Not really , Sure you're perfectly entitled to your opinion "Sure" but my question is: "What differance does it make to you , All the way over there in the UK.?" "Why don't you just worry about your own affairs and stop worrying about what's happening here.?"

I don't want to comment anymore here , It would be just like adding more coals to the steam engine..

People post their own thoughts and opinions on a topic, be it, Bush, Blair, the UK, USA, Iraq, or Uncle Tom Cobbley. Whether or not it's the opinion you want, or like to read, it's not for you to decide.

You are indeed correct. The problem, however, is when a certain theme populates a forum as is the case of the anti US theme expressed in this boards debate forum.

Considering the fact that this board has a membership most exclusively of Europe citizens, with only 4 or so US citizens, the only conclusion one can make is that this board is anti American. To validate this opinion consider the fact that I have yet to see members from Europe take a stance supporting the US.

Yes, you are entitled to express your opinions. But at the same time the members here who see a trend have a choice to move to another forum that is a bit more fair and balanced. ;)

Is that an option that will contribute to the success of this board?

what happens in the US has a significant impact on our country's foreign policy under bliar .....

Another correct statement.

Perhaps I have to just accept the fact that Europe just hates America.

[jason.b.c]

Proved your point? If your point was that you have your head in the sand then I guess I did. :lol:

Whether or not it’s the opinion you want, or like to read, it’s not for you to decide.

Yes it is for to me decide , It's for me to decide that people don't need to keep up with all the DAMNED Bashing all the time..

Why don't you turn off the "tele" and radio , put down your newspaper and get a hobby.. :P

Maybe i should start griping about something in the UK..

( i only replied here again because my posts were being quoted )

[CurlyWhirly]

Perhaps I have to just accept the fact that Europe just hates America.

I don't think Europe hates the US at all well certainly not the UK as we have a close relationship.

What I think is happening is that both the UK and US governments are feeling the wrath of the people.

I certainly don't agree with George Bush's policies on Iraq but that doesn't mean that I hate the US.

Why would I as I have never been there and, although I have only met a few Americans over here, I always found them very friendly and easy to get on with.

[Tankus]

Its the governements ...innit ...

Yes, you are entitled to express your opinions. But at the same time the members here who see a trend have a choice to move to another forum that is a bit more fair and balanced.

And just for a bit of balance maybe you should take a look at the number of anti UK government posts which by far outnumber anything pointed in the shrubs direction ......

To validate this opinion consider the fact that I have yet to see members from Europe take a stance supporting the US

Heh ... Ill just get me violin out

If you mean support Bush ...then your probably right ,but as for the country ...nah......... but then your own population is beginning to see him for what he is and is turning on him too...

[deuces wild]

And just for a bit of balance maybe you should take a look at the number of anti UK government posts which by far outnumber anything pointed in the shrubs direction ......

Fair enough. So am I to conclude that there are nothing but whiners and complainers from Europe here?

If so, here is a book for all of you. http://www.geocities.com/mjloundy/

Do you see yourself as the prime player in it? ;)

[Tankus]

arf ...2 years ... that all ....and the duck croaks ....and as for wingeing and squealing ...we're going to need eardrum protectors on this side of the pond

[deuces wild]

arf ...2 years ... that all ....and the duck croaks

I agree. During those 2 years the libs will be in power. ;)

http://tinyurl.com/y56dsr

http://tinyurl.com/y3hnfl

[Tankus]

[deuces wild]

:lol: And that is your best response to my posts?

Checkmate. ;)

[AlanHo]

I find all this senseless bickering quite unseemly. Why don't you lot accept your differences, kiss and make up. If we keep on upsetting the Americans, they might well withdraw all MacDonalds, KFC, Burger King stores etc and a high proportion of the UK public would starve to death. Surely you don't want that on your conscience.

Why don't we brits all vote for Ros Pritchard next time around...... ;)

[andsome]

I still fail to see how a thorough dislike of Dubya and his policies is Anti American. I am certainly not anti British when I lambaste B'liar. I don't like Robert Mugabe, but this does not mean that I dislike the people from Zimbabwe. As I said before, for heavens sake lighten up and stop taking things personally. I have visited America on several occasions, and have always felt very welcome. More Americans are now anti Dubya than are pro him, does this make all of them anti American too?

[AlanHo]

I find all this senseless bickering quite unseemly. Why don't you lot accept your differences, kiss and make up. If we keep on upsetting the Americans, they might well withdraw all MacDonalds, KFC, Burger King stores etc and a high proportion of the UK public would starve to death. Surely you don't want that on your conscience.

Why don't we brits all vote for Ros Pritchard next time around......

[andsome]

I find all this senseless bickering quite unseemly. Why don't you lot accept your differences, kiss and make up. If we keep on upsetting the Americans, they might well withdraw all MacDonalds, KFC, Burger King stores etc and a high proportion of the UK public would starve to death. Surely you don't want that on your conscience.

That sounds good, our kids might well be a lot healthier. :lol:

[CurlyWhirly]

I find all this senseless bickering quite unseemly. Why don't you lot accept your differences, kiss and make up.

I agree entirely with this view.

I still fail to see how a thorough dislike of Dubya and his policies is Anti American. I am certainly not anti British when I lambaste B'liar. I don't like Robert Mugabe, but this does not mean that I dislike the people from Zimbabwe. As I said before, for heavens sake lighten up and stop taking things personally. I have visited America on several occasions, and have always felt very welcome. More Americans are now anti Dubya than are pro him, does this make all of them anti American too?

My sentiments exactly.

To prove it if any US members here criticised the UK government, I would probably agree with them (depending on what was said) and I certainly wouldn't call them anti-British.

[Tankus]

And that is your best response to my posts

Its all they're worth ...arf

Checkmate.

.eh...? wot...? hehe ..... I can recommend a therapist .....!

if any US members here criticised the UK government, I would probably agree with them (depending on what was said) and I certainly wouldn't call them anti-British

.

exactly

[brendale]

I can see points from both sides.

I agree Iraq, now, was a really bad idea and it would be nice if they could work out some type of exit strategy, and soon.

But I just wonder, what would Clinton have done if he was still in power and 9/11 happened? And it's a damn shame he didn't take the security warnings more seriously when they landed on his desk.

I mean, you have to take an attack of that magnitude seriously, and I'm not saying going into Iraq was the answer, but I'm looking for something that might have been a better way of dealing with it. You of course, could not ignore it.

[catgate]

........ You of course, could not ignore it.

We could..but Tony couldn't, being the international statesman that he is.

(for 'statesman' insert any other fitting word/expression to suit.)