should we bring back hanging?

[ranger]

A heavy subject I know but I have just watched a program about past murderers and their sentence which was death by hanging, i'm curious to know the general concensus of the members of the forum if they now think it is time we brought back the death sentence or leave tha law as is.

My own thoughts for many years was that, their was always a good chance that a inoccent person could be wrongly convicted and put to death so there was no place for it, but I am slowly but surely beginning to change my mind as the modern detection techniques are now less fallible than the ones used in the past (DNA, forensics etc.) and then there is also the fact that murderers are kept in jail at a considerable expense and sometimes in better living conditions than a decent law abiding citizen, OAP etc. and also being released after a very short time while the victim is dead and their family have to live with it their whole life (no time off for good behaviour for them), now i'm not saying every murderer should be put to death, far from it, each case would have to be decided on it's merits, but even if the death sentence is not to be brought back, surely in a lot more of the cases a life sentence should mean life.

[Guest Damo]

i always have been FOR capital punishment, even more so these days, with the introduction of DNA testing and forensics being so advanced that a court could convict without any doubt whatsoever. Then i say bring it back!

[mark2]

I'm in favour of the death sentence for murder so long as it is 100% certain it was premeditated, that might be the hardest part to prove. And then there will be the endless appeals to follow, we may end up like the states with prisoners on death row for 15 yrs.

[Sir Radfordin]

Would it not be better to look at why we might need to re-introduce these measures? Perhaps if we accepted you can't run a country without some money being spent on key things such as policing, teaching etc you are going to have problems in society? Governments have continued to undermine family values which has resulted in a rise in social problems.

The problem with capital punishment is you always stand the risk of convicting the wrong person. DNA may be good, but no-one would ever say it is perfect. There would still be that small chance the person could be inocent.

If you were sat on a jury (or even were the judge) would you be willing to do that job knowing the person you pass judement on stands a chance of being killed?

Takle the root of the problem first, and if you fail there look else where to do something about it.

[Guest Cookie]

:o

[Guest ellas]

hang them high cookie

[peter e]

The balance has tipped against the decent citizen and all the machinery of the law, the social services etc seems to be there to defend the renegades - and remember that the descent in our society pays for all this.

It was reported the other day that the law should do all it could to keep offenders out of prison since a spell in prison will cause them to re-offend. That arguement, carried to its logical conclusion means that we should not even bother to try to apprehend lawbreakers.

On the question of murder one can't generalise. But although in all other respects I aspire to be a reasonable and humane person, on this question, my life experiences tell me that capital punishment must return.

[Guest Dan]

Yes indeed let's bring back hanging!

And slavery. That was jolly good fun too. Let's bomb the people who don't think like we do. Lock up all the social misfits. Hide away the physically and mentally disabled. Yes, let's leap back a hundred years or so.

Surely we should bring back hanging!

After all, look at the country we most aim to emulate whose own vigourous use of the death penalty has surely worked and all but eradicated violent crime. Hardly a violent death to be had in the good ol' US of A.

*********

We cannot on the one hand condemn other countries in Africa, the Middle East and even good ol USA as being barbaric in their ways if we then were to go ahead and make ourselves into a state like them which authorises legal killing. How could you accept the concept that we are an advancing people if you state that murder - the removal of a life - is wrong, or at least it is if you don't have a piece of legal paper.

Grrrr. This bugs me soooo much. (can't you tell?)

Hanging does no good. Except I guess you might enjoy the revenge factor. Unless of course someone makes a mistake in which case you get to enjoy the whoops factor. If the state accidentally kills a man later to be found innocent does that mean the state gets hung too?

And hanging harms the public because it lessens us.

Either life is so valuable it is immeasureable, or it is so valueless that there is no crime in it's removal.

[Guest ellas]

err was that a no to hanging there dan.

[ranger]

Dan, you are being silly with the comments "And slavery. That was jolly good fun too. Let's bomb the people who don't think like we do. Lock up all the social misfits. Hide away the physically and mentally disabled. Yes, let's leap back a hundred years or so" no one is asking for or even thinking about that, most people are just looking for justice, is justice seeing a loved one being murdered and the person who did it walk free after a few years and you and your family have the life sentence, it now dosen't seem like it to me.

As for the death sentence I used to think like you, but as peter e says "The balance has tipped against the decent citizen" and all criminals, not just murderers are IMHO getting a easy ride, also, the do-gooders have succeeded in that there are more people fighting for the criminals rights than the victims rights.

I have lived in the Maryhill district of Glasgow all my life, it's not the worst area in the city but it has it's element, I know a lot of the good people (the majority)and a lot of the scum (I include in the good people, people who have made mistakes in life regards the law, but learned) some of the scum are just your usual neds and others are dealing in drugs, housebreaking , robbery etc. but some of the ones I know involved in these activities would stab/shoot, murder you with little thought as prison means nothing to them and they would "do it standing on their head" maybe if there was a death sentence they would think twice about using these weapons. As for people who molest and kill children I can now no longer think of a reason why they shouldn't receive the death sentence. It's now time to take control of the asylum from the lunatics.

[Guest Dan]

It was supposed to be a bit silly Ranger (I'm not actually for slavery or hanging). My point was that it would be a step back down the ladder.

And having had a late night rant on the matter I'm gonna shut up on it too (after this...).

Like many a hypocrite, I live in a different world to that which you're talking about. I don't like people en mass enough to live in a city or even a town, so I guess I see less of what you're talking about than you do.

Maybe the reality of your world is more brutal than mine, it certainly reads so.

Personally I would regard imprisonment far worse than a death penalty. I'd probably be willing to kill to avoid one rather than the other.

The fact that people regard prison as easy suggests more to me that society is at a Real low, where locking someone away (as has already been said) puts them in more comfort than the elderly suggests to me not that we should be considering new ways to punish the criminals but that we should be looking after the have-nots in society in a better way.

But then that's not such a fun subject I guess. Probably would involve more taxes.

The object is not to lower the bar but to raise it, to improve the lot of the people so that imprisonment actually does deprive you of the wealth that is Society.

IMHO

OK, shutting up now.

[Guest Cookie]

:o

[NWL]

I'll just put my £0.02 worth in here, I think that it is farcical that someone can break into your home, threaten your family, steal etc BUT if the owner should apprehend the criminal they run the risk of counter claims for assault etc.

Personally, and I would think a lot feel this way, if someone broke into my house and threatened my family then sod the consequences I'd give the intruder a damn good kicking!

As for the original subject of hanging/death penalty, I suppose like the majority of those in favour we always quote the "get out" clause of requiring absolute proof of guilt etc. Tricky that in some cases, but there are instances where guilt is absolute - confession & cast iron witnesses, DNA evidence etc and so in those cases I'd have no qualms about pulling the proverbial lever.

While I'm here I'll say something else which really winds me up and that is those who get off on "technicalities", definitely guilty but because of a clerical error somewhere they are released free. And while we're at it, abolish the double jeopardy ruling as well! (This is where you cannot be tried twice for the same offense).

I think that's enough to be going on with.

And Dan, whilst I absolutely respect your right to your opinions, I feel you might change your tune a bit if someone you knew had been murdered in cold blood.

[Guest Dan]

NWL - you may well be right. God willing I'll never find that one out.

I work in the field of care so I think it's neither surprising nor unreasonable that I think the way I do.

Also I rather think I'm more a lib than anyone else on the site (don't hit me dont hit me!) :(

Of course, you might also change your view if say your brother were wrongly convicted and hung.

Part of the problem is that our system simply is not perfect and so there is always an element of doubt. For all the ones you kill who did the deed they were accused of and in the eye for an eye world you desire they are executed, the ones who are not guilty despite a conviction end up dead too. Quashing the conviction will do Them no good.

I prefer my view of the world, but as I've said I live in a different version to you, and do not envy yours.

[Boris]

On a lighter note ?

Only for those who post more than their quota of attachments here - especially if we run out of bandwidth before the month end.

[Scarthy © ® ™]

Hanging is a little Barbaric for me. I think that the lethal injection is about the most humane way to enforce capital punishment.

Death Penalty....Yes I agree with it as long as guilt can be proved beyond doubt - That's where all the trouble is though isn't it?

I definately agree with it with cases such as the Yorkshire Ripper etc etc. Why pay out silly amount of taxpayers money to house people who have caused such pain and been proven (beyond reasonable doubt) guilty.

[Tankus]

With Scarthy on this one (Above post)...........Terrorists too ! provided the evidence is not just based on what the police have provided (ie confessions) but there is 100% corroborating evidence (DNA etc !)

[Guest Cookie]

:o

[djohn]

Hanging! First gut feeling is yes, but and a big but is, what if we hang an Innocent person, that is something that I personally would find hard to live with. Yes I know it cost to keep them in prison but at least they could be made to suffer, made to think every day about what they did wrong.

If after a period of time it was realised that someone had been unjustly imprisoned, then at least they can be freed and adequate compensation paid.

Hanging is a quick solution to the pain and grief of the people that have been wronged, and I can understand that, but for me I would rather know that the guilty person is suffering for the rest of his/her life, and not just for a brief time in the last few min. leading up to the execution.....

[Guest Damo]

As i stated in an earlier post....i am pro capital punishment, i feel that at the moment the prisons just arent harsh enough, prison is supposed to be a pushishment, its supposed to punish criminals by removing their freedom and liberty. But that does not happen anymore. Prisons are just like Youth Centres now, they have recreational facilities, Educational facilities (none of which re-educate their views on crime). Now if prisons were to become like Military prisons, then i would support long term incarceration instead of capital punishment. (i know, call me fickle!). Military prisions have you up at 5 in the morning then give you 12 hours hard graft then come 7 or 8 in the evening prisoners are just end up going to bed through exhaustion. then the cycle starts again the next day! This is what i class as a Prison! The statistics prove it: 70% of released prisoners (Goverment prisons) re-offend within 2 years. as opposed to military prisons were: 85 -90% of released prisoners DONT offend again ever!! They speak for themselves!!!!

Any way thats enough of that!!

Have fun :D

[Guest Dan]

Cookie - I know nothing of the case but if you say that the two main witnesses were his accomplacise (can't spell) then I'd hardly call it 100% as they have an interest in putting all the blame on him don't they?

For real 100% no doubt murder I'd put them away for life. As said before, it's far more terrifying to me than death. But that, like all of this is - subjective. To me it would be an end in itself.

The money view about not wanting to spend money on prisoners brings me back to the idea of improving society. If you want to lessen the number of people in jail for murder I'd say so make life more valuable in society cause today it's dirt cheap and little more than an entertainment (see all the money films spend on sfx for Good killing scenes, and let's not forget all the nice killing games we're all playing on our pcs at the mo.)

I honestly can see some of where you're coming from on this. Eye for eye and revenge are so easy to understand and sympathise with especially if as you've suggested it's personal.

But in a way my idea is more brutal than yours, you seem to go for the cheap option, guilty - dead. The only ones truly punished are the innocent family of the guilty party.

Far worse to me would be to incarcerate them for the rest of their lives, (after all hell is not seen as a quick end but as eternal - far more frightening.) Death is just fear....then nothing.

Right. I'm off shift today and gonna think about something more pleasant.

[djohn]

From 1964 through to 1974 I was in the Army, a hard and well respected regiment. The men who join show no fear and prove it every day by getting out of an airplane before it lands!! :D I am of course talking about the Para's, 2nd Batt. But even we were unwilling to think about a military prison.

I once had the unfortunate experience of escorting a prisoner to Colchester, (Military prison) and that alone was enough to make me be very careful not to end up there myself. :(

[Guest Cookie]

:o