Joining Euro

[andsome]

Eurpope exerts far too much control over the UK as it is. Do you really want taxes controlled by an unelected committee in Brussells? It is bad enough having rob dog Brown dipping into our pockets, without having Neal and Glenys Kinnock and Leon Britton doing the same. Europe is one big gravy train, whitness the common agriculture policy. Everyone who works in a factory or office all the week, and keeps a few chickens or pigs gets a subsidy, as a farmer. Remember how the Germans tried to stop us calling british beer 'BEER', because we use different formulations to them, and incorporate some brewing sugar? Remember how we had to fight to be allowed to export our chocolate, and still call it chocolate, because the Belgians were afraid of the competition? Remember how the French banned British Beef long after the CJD scare was over, but still send their tastless apples over here? It would be easy to go on and on, but Europe is not worth spending too much time on.

For pitiy's sake lets keep at least a small modicom of independance. MAY THE POUND LIVE FOREVER.

[Tankus]

How is our Tone going to square it ,after all that name calling of the french presidential pillock ....

[andsome]

[How is our Tone going to square it ,after all that name calling of the french presidential pillock .... ]

Why should he bother. Lets join the dollar block. We can still keep the pound, as all those in the dollar block use different dollars any way. We could then do more trade again with the commonwealth countries. Who knows we may end up getting better deals on new world wines, such as Australia, new Zealand, USA etc etc, it's all better than the over tannined french rubbish any way. NOTE french with a small f.

[Guest moon]

No irreversible decisions , such as surrendering currency control, should be allowed to take place in the UK in the near future. No single political party should be allowed to make any such decisions without a referendum. Only a referendum will ensure that the will of a true majority of any country's population is served. Initially, referenda should be employed for major decision-taking and then, later, for all manner of decision-taking as our populations become able to use Internet technology to vote. That is just around the corner. Until then, we should ensure that all politicians remain what they are supposed to be ; civil servants doing our bidding. They have only gotten away with it in the past because of our failure to communicate with each other and that's all about to change. The New Democracy, Instant Democracy, will expose us for what we are, good or bad. It's time to teach, if you believe in a bright future.

[peter e]

Instant democracy! I rather like the sound of that, Moon. "Politicians - Civil servants doing our bidding". I like that, too. :D

Pete

[Guest Cookie]

I want to go back to £. s. d. :(

[andsome]

£-s-d is NOT the answer. Yes we lost out with gross rounding up of prices when we went decimal. But calculators would not work with a £ divided by 240 pence, and we could well be back to invoicing by hand again. Just think what that would cost industry etc. For pity's sake however DON'T LET THE CIVIL SERVANTS IN BRUSSELLS GET THEIR HANDS ON OUR TAXATION SYSTEM. As I said earlier in this debate, it is bad enough having comrade Brown running things, but at least he was elected. The civil servants that run Europe were not elected. It is one big club for the GREEDY boys and girls, all making hay on the gravy train. Forget the convenience of crossing borders etc. This is nothing compared with the costs of letting that bunch run our affairs. True, pensions etc are higher in Europe, but that all has to changed as they well know. Whitness the current unrest in France because the social services can no longer be afforded, we have to be realistic. I think I must end this RANT now. But for heavens sake, NEVER LET EUROPE RULE BRITANNIA.

[Guest Nellie2]

Well........Gordon Brown did say yesterday that we aren't ready for the Euro yet so that is encouraging in a way.......it means that they aren't going to go ahead with it just now.......and Tone did say that we are going to have a referendum on it, before the next election.....so if that is the case then we must make sure we vote on that one.

BTW......I don't want Queenie to lose her head just yet!!

[artist]

Oh, Oh, Oh - I have just got to disagree. :ph34r:

As a lot of us pop over to France, Germany or where ever - it would be so much easier to all have the same currency.

We were in Rome for the day this week. Had to get £100 euros and had to pay almost £4 to the bank as commission.

Had a wonderful day, by the way. :pepsi: :cool2: :)

[andsome]

artist

NO DISRESPECT, but you have to realise that this issue goes far deeper than popping over to Europe for a few days and not having to change currencies. I admit that this can be a bind, but there are more important issues. Does it not concern you that the whole idea is that we will not even be able to fix our own interest rates? Germany's troubles at the moment come about because the current E.U interest rate is far too high for them, whilst in Ireland they are in trouble because it is far too low for their current needs. You have far different cultures, people, and ways of life etc to make one set of financial rules apply to all. Our farming industry was efficient until Europe started to impose set rules for everyone. Now we have, or did have large dairy farms which because of a quota system are closing down or going bankrupt, whilst a German or Frenchman with a steady job and a few cows on a bit of land, is subsidised up to the hilt. Can you imagine what it will do to the strongest economy in Europe to be dragged down to a common level? Can you imagine what it will be like when we have to subsidise Poland and other Eastern bloc countries? Can you imagine how we will be dragged down with the increasing unrest in Europe caused by everything financial coming into line? The current problems and unrest with strikes etc in france, are because their pensions have to drop as the rest of Europe cannot carry on subsidising them. We could well do with a little more on our pensions, but European rates are unsustainable. You will see more and more unrest in Europe as the problems with an unelected committee controling the purse strings grow and grow. I have very close ties with a Dutch family who are really suffering financially since the euro was adopted. The common agricultural policy is adding several pounds per week to our shopping bills, just wait until we start to drag eastern Euope into the twenty first century. We will be bogged down with extra taxes and restrictions. SORRY artist, forget about your little pop over to Europe, it goes far far deeper than that.

[volt]

I came in late here,,and am not directly involved with the issue,,but as a U.S. citizen on the outside looking in,,it seems to me that keeping your own monetary independence would be the way to go. :) v

[Guest moon]

keeping your own monetary independence would be the way to go.  v :)

That's what the boss of General Motors implied recently when he was in the North of England verifying the future of a GM factory and 9,000 jobs. The UK needs more of the same from the US in support of sterling. A State of Europe is not in America's interests, nor Australia's , come to that. Overall, the more diverse that government becomes, and the less centralised, the more interesting life will be. I'd rather have to change my currency to cross the county line into Norfolk than travel Europe-wide and feel the oppression of Brussels everywhere I went. Vive la Quid and the Aussie Dollar . :)

[andsome]

This sums it up

[andsome]

Here's another

[artist]

Of course I realise the deeper issues!

I do feel that this is an inevitable change that will happen though.

All the debating in the world seems to get us nowhere - after all who wanted decimalisation?? We got it though, and all the 'cons' that came with it.

What would be good would be to have a few thing our (british) way, instead of following like sheep. We are too passive in this country.

And ansome - I think disrespect is the name of your game. ;)

[andsome]

artist

I can assure you yet again that I mean no disrespect. We are all entitled to our points of view, and if we truly believe in them, then there is no problem with arguing in favour of them. I strongly believe in running our own affairs, and not leaving it to unelected committees in Europe or anywhere else. It is a point of view which I will argue strongly for day in and day out, without disrespecting those who hold opposite views. I don't even know you, so how can I disrespect you?

[Guest moon]

Big wink there, I think, andsome :D

[artist]

Oh, no, Moon - he's definately serious. :D :D :lol:

[andsome]

Not quite sure what you mean Moon by big wink, and Artist, yes, I am very seriously opposed to letting Belgians, French, German etc etc unelected civil servants run our affairs. We have already conceded far too much to them already. NOW is the time to say, 'NO MORE'.

[Guest moon]

Not quite sure what you mean Moon by big wink

I think artist is pulling your leg, andsome. :)

[andsome]

If you ARE pulling my leg artist then I admit to feeling silly.It's just that Europe is something which I tend to take very seriously. I really do pasionately believe that we would be deep in the beep if we venture any further in.

[artist]

Of course I agree with (almost) all you've said, andsome. But you have to have some sort of opposition in a debate, don't you? Can't have it all one-sided.

Sorry if I got you going there. ;) :rolleyes: :)

[andsome]

What do you all think of the new proposed European constitution? To me it looks like more jobs for the boys or girls. I see that the suggestion is to have a president. I wonder just how much he or she will be paid. They talk about all sorts of COMMON policies. This basically means that we will be deciding even less for ourselves. Why should people as far away as Poland decide what is good for the British? Even the USA allows a great degree of autonomy to individual states. They can decide on variations in many law issues such as the death penalty etc. They can set their own levels of sales taxes etc. We will be left with an unwieldy process with all the different nations in Europe arguing how much tax we will pay. If the USA with many years of federal rule allows such a lot of decentralisation, what make the EEC think that everything can be decided in one place, namely Brussells? Decided in many instances not by MEP'S, but by an unelected commission of overpaid civil servants. Leon Brittain, and the Kinnocks are typical examples.

[Guest moon]

I have trouble comprehending the arrogance of a government that would make such a decision without a referendum. Centralisation doesn't work, not for utilities, not for banks, not for governments. You'd think that Gorbochev's dismantling of the communist state would be a bit of an indication of that, wouldn't you ? British politics is in deep trouble. The Tories are still unelectable. Despite their recent common sense everybody remembers the horrors of Thatcherism. The Lib-Dems are wimps on a stick and Newish Labour want to dispose of the UK's currency and social independence as well as stuffing us all with GM food. Add to that the cost of a decent education under any of them and we're left with a frustrated populace desperately trying to discover an alternative via the Internet. Brits should resist any major decision-taking without a referendum until 'Popular Democracy' can manifest itself .

[Tankus]

Its probably very easily justified if you live on the planet tone..................