Joining Euro

[mark2]

Couple of 'sound bites' from the anti

Since the euro was launched unemployment in the euro countries has been very high - twice the rate in Britain.

from the pro's

Stability, growth & jobs: Up to 3.5 million British jobs depend on exports to the European Union… jobs have been lost in sectors exposed to sterling’s volatility outside the euro. Growth is at risk if foreign investors turn towards the EU.

Who's Lying or talking tripe ?

Think I saw some figures relating to pensions somewhere, but cannot recall where but basically

France et al are in the hole over pensions to over 100% of the wage earners input but the UK lots lower where will they find the extra in France etc when we join the euro, you're right the UK pensions funds our pockets again !!

[TERBOW]

If our economy is one of the healthiest in the world,why should we change it?

my motto "if it ain't broke don@t fix it" Do we really want to be controlled by Brussels.,Remember what happened with decimalisation? "ripped off" -metric ?"ripped off" Are the Germans and French still buying our meat In great volumes,?.

My grandson asked me "why do we have to join the euro€ ? why cant they adopt our £.??? he's only 9 years old.

FUTURE LABOUR PM????.. :blink:

[Guest moon]

FUTURE LABOUR PM????..

Tone will nick that. 'Future Labour' sounds better than 'New Labour' and you can't call it new when when it's not.

[Tankus]

God, Moon enough is enough ......and thats too plausabile.........

If ever this country has needed Guy Fawkes ....its now............!

what the bloody hell is wrong with our country..........

[andsome]

If ever this country has needed Guy Fawkes ....its now............!

what the bloody hell is wrong with our country.......

What is wrong goes under the name of NEW LABOUR

[Tankus]

This did'nt take long did it ?

Cocaine found on nearly all euro notes

By Kate Connolly in Berlin

(Filed: 26/06/2003)

Almost all euro bank notes have traces of cocaine, according to a study by German scientists.

Prof Fritz Sögel and a team from the Institute for Biomedical and Pharmaceutical Research in Nuremberg studied 700 euro notes from across the euro zone between January 2002 - the month the notes were launched - and last August.

Three per cent were found to be contaminated with an average of 0.4 microgrammes of cocaine particles, just days after the euro's launch, and this figure soared to 90 per cent in seven months.

The most highly contaminated notes, in the first study of its kind on euro notes, originated from Spain.

Rolled up banknotes are often used to sniff cocaine. Because the notes are made from pure cotton, cocaine crystals stick easily to them and quickly get passed on to other notes, according to experts.

[Guest LB]

As I have stated many times before, I am a Tory boy through and through.

I am staunchly british and support everything that makes us British.

Despite this, it is about time to admit the fact that joining the euro is inevitable and it would be better to do it sooner rather than later.

Take the UN as an example...we were a founder member and still hold a veto over anything and everything.

If we are one of the first to join the euro we will command much more respect from our trading partners (and lets not forget that Europe and not the US is our biggest export market) for taking the risk and being one of the pioneers, we will have more say than a country that joins in 5, 10 or even 15 years time, as Artist has pointed out there will be no more european exchange rates to worry about, imagine going into a shop in portugal and being able to price a pair of Levis without trying to convert into pounds!!!

What we neeed to move away from is the idea of harmonised interest rates and the like. This is undoubtedly a bad idea, after all, the housing market varies in england - from north to south, region to regions, let alone across the whole of europe. Centrally dictated anything is a bad idea!!

We SHOULD join the euro, but on OUR terms and not the terms of the Krauts, the Frogs or of the mindless beaurocrats that are triyng to create a federal state.

[andsome]

There was a time when the old commonwealth was our biggest export market as well as our biggest supplier. What do we have now in it's place? Over tannined French wine, tasteless French apples, bureaucrats worrying about whether or not we should call our chocolate, CHOCOLATE, etc etc. We definitely DO NOT want that bunch setting our tax rates etc. As I pointed out earlier on this forum, the whole essence of this argument goes a lot further that not having to change currency on holiday. We would be better off out of the whole system altogether, as is Europe's riches country 'Switzerland.'

[Guest LB]

We would be better off out of the whole system altogether

If we were out of the whole system, what sort of export tax would the rest of europe enforce on the goods going to the uk?

If we decide that we are going to get the hell out and go it alone then we would be fighting the trade forces of europe and the us.

Lets be honest and admit that in the end we will have to join, lets join on our terms and not theirs!!!!

[Guest moon]

If we were out of the whole system, what sort of export tax would the rest of europe enforce on the goods going to the uk?

I think you're confusing the European Community with the currency system, LB. There's no such thing as export tax between EU countries and you're already in that. There's no sensible reason at all why the UK can't be part of the EU, as you are now, and prosper without the Euro, as you are now doing.

[Guest LB]

moon, Andsome said we would be better off out of the whole system, i assumed he meant both the EU and the EURO....

[andsome]

I would be quite happy to get the hell out of Europe altogether. If Switzerland can manage without Europe then so can we. There are far more countries outside Europe than in it. I would prefer to be part of the dollar block, including ALL countries which trade in dollars. We used to do plenty of trade before Europe was thought of by politicians having nightmares. Just think of all the waste that goes on, and all the stupid things that they waste time discussing.

[Guest LB]

interesting proposition, joining NAFTA...don't really know enough about it and how it works to comment on that one.

[Tankus]

Switzerland is not managing , their economy is in some difficulty.......

[andsome]

Switzerland is not managing , their economy is in some difficulty.......

They are doing better than France

[Guest LB]

iraq is doing better than France!!!

[Tankus]

arf arf

[andsome]

France needs an atom bomb dropping on it.

[Guest moon]

moon, Andsome said we would be better off out of the whole system, i assumed he meant both the EU and the EURO....

I see. Leaving the EU, andsome, would put us at the mercy of our own government. We, the people, need to master the art of playing off Brussels against Westminster in order to maintain and improve our quality of life. We couldn't do that, LB, if we were totally absorbed so the current state of affairs is working to our advantage. The danger is that irreversible decisions are taken without us, by Westminster, so we need to insist on a referendum for any major decision and work towards voting by computer. This would give us, present Internet users, the advantage in a climate of voting apathy. That's why I feel that discussion forums on sites like this one are of equal importance to the 'computer help' side of things. No discussion means no policy and no policy means fragmentation. In this instance the best policy for the UK is to be the 'tart' of Europe, court individual countries when possible, take their money when possible and give them a good slap when they suggest something alien to our nature. You can't do that when you're on the payroll.

[andsome]

We get the government that we deserve. If we vote a particular government in we have to live with that decision for up to five years. The problem with Europe as I see it, is that far too many decisions are made by a corrupt commission, who are only interested in the gravy train. The whole bunch had to resign a year or two ago due to corruption, now a good many of these are yet again drawing their fat pay cheques. Playing one off against the other as a ploy, is gradually being eroded as we give up more and more powers of veto. Regarding referendums, these have always been few and far between, and to my knowledge no government in this country has ever lost a referendum that they support. This is why 'Cheesie' is not holding a referendum yet awhile. The idea is to gradually scare us with tales of massive losses of trade, massive unemployment etc, and then when we are nicely primed and scared to hold the referendum. Far more countries in this world are quite successful without being members of the EEC, there is no reason why we cannot also be as successful, if we are allowed to run things to suit us and not to suit a bunch of corrupt unelected bureaucrats.

KEEP THE £

[Guest moon]

Governments, by their very nature, cannot be trusted. It doesn't really matter whether you lessen your own standing by delegating your power of decision to Westminster or Brussels. Democracy as we know it has depended upon the people's inability to effectively communicate with each other in order to survive. Having only two-and-a-half political parties with enough organisational ability to influence the population makes a mockery of 'democracy' as an acceptable tool on a national scale. A truly democratic government would consist of a debating society ( the Commons) with a filter chamber ( the Lords) through which ideas were passed on to the population to approve , or disapprove, by referenda. Computers have made this possible. There would be no overload nor delay in decision-making as the chambers could never produce more ideas, reforms, or whatever than the population could handle. Furthermore, the 'personality' aspect of 'leadership' would be removed from the equation. The intelligentsia among us, and I am not ashamed to state that there is one, would flourish as a result of the proven apathy of a large proportion of the population. Those interested would vote and those on the slippery slope of intellectual extinction would not bother. ( I mean on a daily, or weekly basis here, not every five years or so) Consequently, the size of two-dimensional page three tits would have no affect on the quality of life of those of us with the nonce to appreciate them in the round, if I may fabricate an analogy.

[andsome]

I understand what you are saying Moon, but no government of any persuasion in this country is going to delegate power to referendum. Better this bunch who we can throw out periodically, rather than the unelected European Commission. Also can you imagine what it would be like with some of the thick-o's in this country taking part in a referendum. I make no apology for NOT including those who have partaken in a sensible debate on this forum, in the description of thick-o's. But can you imagine people who can see no further than Big Brother or endless soap opera's taking part in sensible decision making via a referendum?

[Guest moon]

Well, I'm a guest in your country, andsome, and I know that it's easy to overlook the positive aspects of one's own countrymen. I think you Brits would make out well with electronic referenda and I feel fairly sure that you'll not only lead the world in this arena before long but that your resulting system of government will influence the world in the same way that your Mother of Parliaments did and still does. In short , the UK is a gem when it comes to neo politics, far too advanced to become a mere member of any fledgling European state. That's another reason for refusing monetary integration; the UK needs it's freedom in order to invent and lead by example. The attitude of the existing Labour party stems from its history of defeated socialism. It is still making the same errors as the communists and early socialists when it attempts to 'blend' the UK with Europe. Water and oil mate. :D

[andsome]

Moon thanks for the reply. Unfortunately I've just had my dinner with three quarters of a bottle of excellnt californian wine. I need to think straight before I answer you.

[andsome]

Further to yesterdays reply to Moon. I think that we will have to get round to voting electronically eventually, and it was tried out in one or two local elections recently. Regarding referendums however, I just cannot see any British government using them on a regular basis, and on the odd occasion that they do they will ensure that the questions are loaded, so that we will in the main feel compelled to vote the way they want us to. Already a campaign is just about getting underway as I have already stated, to make us think that membership of the Euro monetary system will be the best thing since sliced bread,. and will be the only thing which will prevent mass unemployment and bankruptcy. When we had the referendum many years ago by Harold Wilson's government about the E.U., the question asked was, did we want to stay in 'The common Market', with all it's advantages. Any talk of an eventual European super state was strongly denied. We were led to believe that the sole issue at stake was a free trade area. It was blatant lies through and through, and we now know that as long ago as when Ted heath first took us into 'The common Market', the eventual plan was a federal Europe.

I still maintain that in the long run we would be better off out of this top heavy and corrupt bureaucracy.