Guest Nellie2 Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 I heard today that the head of the Teachers Union is proposing that maths as a subject should be optional after the age of 14, as long as numeracy is compulsary. His argument was that a lot of kids find stuff like algebra and equations too challenging and therefore because they think they can't do it, they don't even try. He said that if the pressure were taken off, as long as numeracy continued to be taught, that it could only be a good thing because those that liked maths could take it further if they wished and those that didn't could concentrate on what they are good at.Personally I think as far as numbers are concerned, kids should be taught life skills, like how to budget, how to work out your tax and national insurance.....have they been paid the right amount of overtime, how to shop for a mortgage, percentage rates and how they work as far as loans etc are concerned and so on. I liked maths at school but it didn't come easy to me, consequently I was in a low ability class and forgotten about, the exam result I got wasn't worth the paper it was written on. Having said that, I went to night school some years later and did my GCSE in maths and got an A......so it just goes to show that no-one should be written off.Anyway, what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 Tis a shame. Just goes to show what poor teaching produces. Sorry to be on a high horse but I think you answered your own question Nellie 2. I had a good teacher who was able to show how to reduce everyday numeracy problems to basics. Equating them with the simplest of algebraic equations enabled budgeting etc. to be handled and, more importantly, understood very easily. But again I had a gifted teacher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest he he :-)™ Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 nah... algebra is easy peasy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 That was my point He He. Once the concept is grasped it is easy. I know many people who found it very difficult because of poor teaching. This, at an early age, produces bottle necks which is difficult to overcome later in life. Once the understanding is generated it is wonderful to see the gleam in someones eyes when they see that it is so easy. Also the enthusiasm in re-examining things that are avoided. Paticularly things in everyday life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nellie2 Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 In my line of work we use maths all the time without thinking about it really, tax calculations, various formulas for working out mortgages and percentage of liability for certain things and other stuff too scarey to mention......my problem is that I have to teach these things to new trainees.......not easy especially if someone has been out of the education game for a while. Having said that........established staff are just as difficult if you are trying to get a new concept across. So I would say that to equip a child for the world of work then they need maths......and yes doug, if only we could all have a teacher like yours. If I'd had a good teacher then I probably wouldn't have started my working life in a Wimpy Bar!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest he he :-)™ Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 I had a good teacher... top set for maths I was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cookie Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 I could never spell algeebra at school but I always got top marks in maths lessons. :D I can't understand the kids of today, maths is so easy for them with decimals etc.Oi, youngsters, get your head round this one and then say you're hard done by..You have 3 tons 5 hundredweight @ £21. 2s. 6d per ton and 4 tons 3 hundredweight @ £1. 14s. 9d per hundredweight.What is the total cost? :P :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvw Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 Cookie.....without using a calculator I make it:£212. 17shillings and 7pence hapenny.Time for bed :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lester1 Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 :( Its a bummer when your kids ask for help with their homework and when you try to explain the workings of your answer are told "But we don't do it like that" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 I used a calculator and got £212.17s.4pence hapennyAny other suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 Agree with you lester. No.1 daughter used to get confused with directed numbers. Had great difficulty getting her to understand that it was important not to confuse directions with operations. 'tis very inconvenient that we use + for the addition operation and the same symbol for a positive number. We also use - for the subtraction operation and the symbol for sutraction. She eventually grasped it but for years couldn't get the hang of percentages. The fault lay with the new names and methods used to teach her. Also thinking about the answer, does it make sense? I remember to this day when she rang me up to say that she had just carried out an experiment and fed the answers into a stats packaged and got a perfect fit to the Gaussian curve. Thias seemed to be unusual to say at the very least. But she was convinced she was correct, even her Lecturer was excited. I talked her through the algorithm she used and found that the stats package had calculateed the mean and standard deviation for her results and then produced the curve for those figures. It did not plot the experimental results. Appreciation of errors had been completely omitted from the course. Just goes to show, lack of understanding, and people blindly go throug the motions and go by the results. "Does the answer make sense and do you understand what it says"! Thay's probably enough prosetelysing for tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artist Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 I always thought that the calculator has a lot to answer for. The younger generation get to an answer, and it may very well be correct, but they have no idea how it was worked out.I agree that the sort of teacher you had counts for a lot. I remember an english teacher with really bad breath - I had always been good at english but because she'd pick me out and stand near me, I stopped being 'good'.I wonder if an aptitude for numbers runs in families? - both my daughters and I ended up in accounts work.Also, with regards to your late 'A' Nellie - I was hopeless at art in school but got an 'A' with honours about 10 years ago. Maybe because I was more relaxed about things by then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Do they still do the theory of indices, the derivation and use of logarithms and slide rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nellie2 Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 I had a slide rule, think I still have it somewhere and a book full of logarithms, sines and cosines. We weren't allowed to use calculators in exams so had to do with out them in lessons too!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark2 Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Calculators have made it all too easy nowadays, I too still have a slide rule somewhere, but don't think I've used it in 15yrs, but even in day to day work I find myself doing a mental estimate of what final figures should be before getting the calculator out.The apprentices reach for the calculator 1st.But by the age of 14 most kids will either like/not like maths and then progress from there, the sort of things they will use day to day should already be learnt, after that age it's down to the thirst for knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Hang on to them Nel. They will become collectors items for your decendents. I've still got my 7 fig. log tables, standard and quadruple exponent slide rule and most useful of all is a circular slide rule given to me by Dupont, Freon Division many years ago as an appreciation for something I did for them on Fluocarbons. It's about 110 x 75 mm with a 60 mm dia circular scale but the most useful part is the table of elements and a pull out slide with 2 way conversion tables for energy, pressure, velocity, flow rate on one side. Then volume, length area and weight on the other together with a list of useful constants and data. Needless to say in my ork this has been well travelled and used.Anyone else come across this or similar useful gizmo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Smith Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Anyone else come across this or similar useful gizmo?I've got some pretty decent servers at work!! :lol: :D :P Mr. M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Anyone else come across this or similar useful gizmo?I used to have a circular one too !Very handy for carrying in your shirt pocket.Still got my traditional one as well - mint in its original case with manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cookie Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 I used a calculator and got £212.17s.4pence hapennyAny other suggestions?Bang on Doug. You're showing your age and brilliant memory. :D I did mine long hand to make sure your calculator is working OK. :lol: I've still got my circular slide rule, haven't used it in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 My memory is not that good. I think they call it short term memory loss. I can't remember where the other part of my memory went. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cookie Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 My memory is not that good. I think they call it short term memory loss. I can't remember where the other part of my memory went. :blink:So if I remind you of the £100 you owe me, you've forgotten??? :( :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug Posted April 25, 2003 Report Share Posted April 25, 2003 You sure about that cookie? :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rome Posted April 26, 2003 Report Share Posted April 26, 2003 a+b=? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cookie Posted April 26, 2003 Report Share Posted April 26, 2003 Watcha Rome and welcome. :D You trying to cause me trouble? There's only room for one troublemaker in here and you've just been welcomed by him. :lol: So a+b=?, yes, and the rest.a, b, c etc are used, or were when I was at school, for known numbers, x, y, z, were used for unknown numbers.e.g. a=5, b=10 find solution to the following x=a+bBack to your original a+b=x. x=a+b. x-a=b. x-b=a. x-a-b=? What do you make it, remind me please. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of Calcutta Posted April 27, 2003 Report Share Posted April 27, 2003 x-a-b=0 :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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