Refugees

[edbanger]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20050906...henation/120080

A typical redneck attitude, the same as blaming people for not leaving New Orleans before the hurricane hit.

I see that her son his going to investegate himself, I wonder what the outcome will be?

[andsome]

This sums up the attitude of these people nicely. The whole family are as bad. Even Republican politicians are now saying how badly Bush and the administration have handled the whole disaster. Politics right from the top in Washington down to local politicians have let these poor people down abysmally. Just do a Google search and see the press reports. I was criticised in another thread which has since been closed, for supposedly kicking a country when it was down, because I thought that the people had been let down. It now appears that what I said was true. I just wonder how different the governments reaction would have been had the disaster occurred in a predominantly wealthy white area.

[-pops-]

andsome, the problem in the other thread you refer to was that it was getting widely off-topic and even when some pruning was done, it strayed from the original point such that the starter of the thread requested it be closed. I recall, though, that people were invited to begin a new thread on the subject(s) that were the reason for the pruning. This new one here seems to fulfill that.

Can I request that comments are kept within the bounds of reasonableness, please?

[andsome]

Can I request that comments are kept within the bounds of reasonableness, please?

Most certainly from my point of view. I agree that the other thread did get off topic. I hope that the comments above are considered to be reasonable, in the light of reports coming out of the area.

[Belatucadrus]

I just wonder how different the governments reaction would have been had the disaster occurred in a predominantly wealthy white area.

Probably not a lot different, the inadequate evacuation plans were largely due to an inability to actually grasp the destructive power of what was coming their way (Perhaps understandable, how does anybody get their head round a storm capable of levelling an area the size of Britain without experiencing it ? ). Combined with a rigid bureaucracy that's apparent stupidity is totally incomprehensible. I saw TV coverage last night of one of the volunteer rescue crews, they had arrived within 24 hours and were then kept waiting until Wednesday before they were allowed to help. They were unhappy and very unimpressed. You may also remember the pictures showing ranks of school buses under several feet of water. Why did it not occur to somebody to fill these with people and move them out ? The Mayor and other local politicos are making a lot of noise about national governments obvious failings, but they clearly also have much to answer for.

I'm afraid one other thing that tees me off is the rather patronising attitude of some jounalists, in the same situation, could we do any better ?

[andsome]

I think we reacted a whole lot quicker to Boscastle. OK, very much smaller scale, but nevertheless, a quick reaction was called for, and was forthcoming. As I said above, politicians from National government right down to local politicians sadly let these people down.

[-pops-]

My "son in law" (the pilot) has told me that all the large airlines were ready and waiting as soon as Katrina hit land to answer any call from the US government for help in supplying any sort of aid they could, whether transporting manpower or emergency supplies. The request was not made.

I wonder if it was a case of pride on the part of the US Administration - both local and national - that they should be able to manage the situation internally?

[andsome]

My "son in law" (the pilot) has told me that all the large airlines were ready and waiting as soon as Katrina hit land to answer any call from the US government for help in supplying any sort of aid they could, whether transporting manpower or emergency supplies. The request was not made.

I wonder if it was a case of pride on the part of the US Administration - both local and national - that they should be able to manage the situation internally?

Whatever the reason, it has cost many more lives than it should have done.

[djohn]

You could be right on that pops, my new daughter is a flight attendant in the R.A.F. and they where also placed on 24 hours notice, but sat around waiting. I also think that this whole tragedy took not only the U.S but the rest of us by complete surprise.

I don't mean the storm itself, but the ferocity and aftermath of it. I remember watching Sky news in the days leading up to the storm and we saw all the usual scenes of people getting ready for yet another hurricane. I honestly don't think anyone realised it was going to be so ferocious. Oh! just a high wind, few broken windows and trailer homes blown over, just like we have seen so many times before.

By the time it hit, no one, and I really do mean no one, was ready to deal with the massive damage caused and/or the best way to deal with this tragic situation.

God bless them all, I truly hope that all the survivors will now be taken well care of and that we all learn something from this. I have a feeling though, we will see similar tragedies in the future. :(

[rong]

I don't think the storm was the biggest problem, I think it was the dyke breaking that has caused the most trouble.

[dadyassa]

I don't think the storm was the biggest problem, I think it was the dyke breaking that has caused the most trouble.

Being meters below sea level doesn`t help either.

[catgate]

The whole sorry business just shows what a sham politics is. What a pathetic inept bunch of self seeking egoists are running the world (not just U.S.A.).

A recent report by an American news agency said that it has been known for years that the dykes/levees, or whatever, have been in need of repair and impovement, but those with their hands on the purse strings and their noses in the trough have found other more favourable uses for the cash. They based their judgement on their the fact that the likelyhood of a force 4 tornado was infinitesimaly small, because the worst they have had for many years have been force 3. Yet all the predictions were that a 4 would wreak havoc.

Still, we have seen them make many trips into space, which must have benefited all sorts of people.

[deuces wild]

They based their judgement on their the fact that the likelyhood of a force 4 tornado was infinitesimaly small, because the worst they have had for many years have been force 3. Yet all the predictions were that a 4 would wreak havoc.

Actually it was designed for a catagory 3 hurricane, not tornado.

And the fix to bring it up to cat 5 standards was $20 billion.

You are right about politicians.....they decided that it was not necessary.

Interesting that the section of levee that broke was actually reinforced to Cat 5 standards.

:o

Still, we have seen them make many trips into space, which must have benefited all sorts of people.

.

Them? Do you mean the United States?

If so.....yep: :rolleyes: http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html ;)

Edit: BTW: Jessie Jackson has accused the news of being racist for using the term 'refugees'. Perhaps we should heed his advice and call the displaced folks of all races and religions "evacuees".

We would not want someone to come to this board, see the term being used and accuse fellow members of being racist, now would we? :rolleyes:

Edit 2: I agree with everyone in that this disaster (which actually occured only after the levee broke as pointed out by Rong) was mismanaged from the top to the bottom of the political chain. It was eventually a test of our so called Homeland Security program (FEMA was rolled into it and was handcuffed due to federal regulations) and it failed.

Hopefully the US will learn from this disaster and make drastic changes up and down the board (including removing FEMA from the controls of Homeland Security.)

[-pops-]

Interesting item on the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4216508.stm

Especially about Michael Brown who is/was in charge of FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency). Previously he was in charge of the Arab Horse Association - perfect qualification? I think not.

Mickey Mouse wears a GWB watch. :(

[andsome]

Interesting item on the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4216508.stm

Mickey Mouse wears a GWB watch. :(

GWB probably wears a Micky Mouse watch

[edbanger]

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/ne...t_id=1001051313

From this article it appears Bush cut funding for the for the levees to help fund his army of occupation in Iraq.

[andsome]

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/ne...t_id=1001051313

From this article it appears Bush cut funding for the for the levees to help fund his army of occupation in Iraq.

Are you surprised?

[deuces wild]

The problem had been known for decades. Don't try to put this soley at the feet of Bush:

For those wanting to blame the Bush administration (and I am not saying they acted prudently) also consider these facts:

February 17, 1995

An Army Corps of Engineers "hit list" of recommended budget cuts would

eliminate new flood-control programs in some of the nation's most

flood-prone spots - where recent disasters have left thousands

homeless and cost the federal government millions in emergency aid.

Clinton administration officials argue that the flood-control efforts

are local projects, not national, and should be paid for by local

taxes.

Nationwide, the administration proposes cutting 98 new projects in 35

states and Puerto Rico, for an estimated savings of $29 million in

1996.

Corps officials freely conceded the cuts, which represent only a small

portion of savings the corps ultimately must make, may be penny-wise

and pound-foolish. But they said they were forced to eliminate some

services the corps has historically provided to taxpayers to meet the

administration's budget-cutting goals.

June 23, 1995

A hurricane project, approved and financed since 1965, to protect more

than 140,000 West Bank residents east of the Harvey Canal is in

jeopardy.

The Clinton administration is holding back a Corps of Engineers report

recommending that the $120 million project proceed. Unless that report

is forwarded to the Office of Management and Budget, Congress cannot

authorize money for the project, U.S. Rep. William Jefferson's office

said Thursday.

On June 9, John Zirschky, the acting assistant secretary of the Army

and the official who refused to forward the report, sent a memo to the

corps, saying the recommendation for the project "is not consistent

with the policies and budget priorities reflected in the President's

Fiscal Year 1996 budget. Accordingly, I will not forward the report to

the Office of Management and Budget for clearance."

July 26, 1996

The House voted Thursday for a $19.4 billion energy and water bill

that provides $246 million for Army Corps of Engineers projects in

Louisiana.

The bill, approved 391-23, is the last of the 13 annual spending

measures for 1997 approved by the House.

One area in which the House approved more financing than the president

requested was for flood control and maintenance of harbors and

shipping routes by the Army Corps of Engineers.

Flood control projects along the Mississippi River and its tributaries

were allotted $303 million, or $10 million more than the president

wanted.

June 19, 1996

The Army Corps of Engineers, which builds most flood protection levees

on a federal-local cost-sharing basis, uses a cost-benefit ratio to

justify a project. If the cost of building a levee is considered less

than the cost of restoring a flood-ravaged area, the project is more

likely to be approved.

For years, the Jean Lafitte-Lower Lafitte-Barataria-Crown Point areas

couldn't convince the corps they were worthy of levee protection. But

the use of Section 205 and congressional pressure has given the corps

a new perspective, Spohrer said.

But even so, when the Clinton administration began to curtail spending

on flood control and other projects a year ago, the corps stopped

spending on Section 205 projects even after deciding to do a $70,000

preliminary Jean Lafitte study, Spohrer said.

July 22, 1999

In passing a $20.2 billion spending bill this week for water and

energy projects, the House Appropriations Committee approved some

significant increases in financing for several New Orleans area flood

control and navigational projects.

The spending bill is expected on the House floor within the next two

weeks.

For the New Orleans District of the Army Corps of Engineers, the panel

allocated $106 million for construction projects, about $16 million

more than proposed by President Clinton.

The bill would provide $47 million for "southeast Louisiana flood

control projects," $16 million for "Lake Pontchartrain and vicinity

hurricane protection," $15.9 million for the Inner Harbor Navigation

Canal Lock on the Industrial Canal in New Orleans and $2 million for

"West Bank hurricane protection -- from New Orleans to Venice."

Most of the projects received significant increases over what the

Clinton administration had proposed. The exception: general flood

control projects for southeast Louisiana, which remained at the $47

million suggested by Clinton. Local officials had hoped for double

that amount."

From:

http://eurota.blogspot.com/2005/09/us-left...ched-every.html

From your article:

Local officials are now saying, the article reported, that had Washington heeded their warnings about the dire need for hurricane protection, including building up levees and repairing barrier islands, "the damage might not have been nearly as bad as it turned out to be."

Perhaps so. But it was not only Bush who made the decision not to spend the money to re-engineer and bulk up the dam. The problem, and failure to act, was first brought to the attention of President Carter I believe.

[andsome]

Obviously budget cuts by the present and past administrations have played their part. What annoys me is that the disaster having happened, the response was so abysmally slow, by local and national agencies. Also the comments by Barbara Bush have certainly not helped, that is the whole point of this thread. Some people seem to live on another planet. It reminds me of the saying attributed to Marie Antoinette, when she was told that the people were so poor that they could not afford to buy bread, she replied "then let them eat cake".

[catgate]

The whole sorry business just shows what a sham politics is. What a pathetic inept bunch of self seeking egoists are running the world (not just U.S.A.).

[deuces wild]

Obviously budget cuts by the present and past administrations have played their part.  What annoys me is that the disaster having happened, the response was so abysmally slow, by local and national agencies.  Also the comments by Barbara Bush have certainly not helped, that is the whole point of this thread.  Some people seem to live on another planet.  It reminds me of the saying attributed to Marie Antoinette, when she was told that the people were so poor that they could not afford to buy bread, she replied "then let them eat cake".

My,my..now we find that the Red Cross has truckloads of food, water and medical supplies ready to go to New Orleans but they were blocked from doing so by the Governor of the State (controlling the State's National Guard and the States Homeland Security Department [not affiliated with the Federal Government).

Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html

Go also to http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,112935,00.html

Click on the "Looking for answers transcript" at the upper right.

[andsome]

One big mess up