NHS Trusts in trouble

[andsome]

Doesn't this lot make you feel sick? What the HELL is happening to the NHS?? Is too much money going on managers, and not enough into patient care?

NHS in crisis

[Belatucadrus]

How can this be, were not New Labour much touted as the saviours of the health service from the hands of the villainous Tories ? Yet here we appear to be after many years of labour government and millions of quid, somehow it all appears to be going pear shaped.

A phrase springs to mind, something to do with lack of organisational skills and a power drinking spree in a brewery.

Perhaps inappropriate as organising a massive nation wide piss up appears to be one thing they actually can do.

[catgate]

Yes, he should be very proud of the Legacy he leaves. It will take a hell of a good system, billions of pound, blood sweat and tears, and at least a decade to unravel it all.

[lester1]

Yes, he should be very proud of the Legacy he leaves. It will take a hell of a good system, billions of pound, blood sweat and tears, and at least a decade to unravel it all.

Naw give the Tory's around 6 months and they will have privatized the lot so only the rich can afford to get sick. They way it used to be for far too long or have you forgotten the bad times remember hospital wards closed because they could not afford to keep them open, and the massive under investment in the NHS generally.

My wife has been given the best of care during her current problem and could not have received better attention and treatment. Some thing I certainly could not have afforded to payed for privately.

You can say what you like but I have parents retired with minimal pensions and chronic ill health and I would rather they were looked after by the current government and there stance on the NHS.

And yes categate it has taken billions of pounds and a decade to unravel the mess that the present government inherited.

[andsome]

Yes, he should be very proud of the Legacy he leaves. It will take a hell of a good system, billions of pound, blood sweat and tears, and at least a decade to unravel it all.

Naw give the Tory's around 6 months and they will have privatized the lot so only the rich can afford to get sick. They way it used to be for far too long or have you forgotten the bad times remember hospital wards closed because they could not afford to keep them open, and the massive under investment in the NHS generally.

My wife has been given the best of care during her current problem and could not have received better attention and treatment. Some thing I certainly could not have afforded to payed for privately.

You can say what you like but I have parents retired with minimal pensions and chronic ill health and I would rather they were looked after by the current government and there stance on the NHS.

And yes categate it has taken billions of pounds and a decade to unravel the mess that the present government inherited.

You just have to be joking. I would not deny that your wife has had good treatment. This is a case of people with a conscience doing the best they can in the circumstances. It is a sad fact that the BIGGEST growth in NHS spending has been on managers. You talk about closure of wards. Cannock Chase hospital was planned under the last Tory government, and finally opened about six years ago. Only four out of eleven wards are fully operational, and there is talk of even more cutbacks. If anyone in our locality has a minor accident, we cannot travel five miles to Cannock Chase Hospital, as there are no longer facilities there, the accident and emergency has been closed, so we have to travel twenty five miles to Stafford instead. Recent cases have come to light in Worcestershire, with ward and treatment centres closing down and cancer patients having to travel more than forty miles for treatment. Shrewsbury Hospital is millions of pounds in the red, all due to terrible management. Rather than putting things right, this government just throws more billions at the problem, and wastes it all. In many areas now it is completely impossible to get a NHS dentist. Sorry, but you must have your eyes and ears closed to what is happening.

[Thos]

You just have to be joking. I would not deny that your wife has had good treatment. This is a case of people with a conscience doing the best they can in the circumstances. It is a sad fact that the BIGGEST growth in NHS spending has been on managers. You talk about closure of wards. Cannock Chase hospital was planned under the last Tory government, and finally opened about six years ago. Only four out of eleven wards are fully operational, and there is talk of even more cutbacks. If anyone in our locality has a minor accident, we cannot travel five miles to Cannock Chase Hospital, as there are no longer facilities there, the accident and emergency has been closed, so we have to travel twenty five miles to Stafford instead. Recent cases have come to light in Worcestershire, with ward and treatment centres closing down and cancer patients having to travel more than forty miles for treatment. Shrewsbury Hospital is millions of pounds in the red, all due to terrible management. Rather than putting things right, this government just throws more billions at the problem, and wastes it all. In many areas now it is completely impossible to get a NHS dentist. Sorry, but you must have your eyes and ears closed to what is happening.

All of this is to ignore the immense increase in demand for more and different treatment required. Not long ago CAT scans were almost unheard of. Nowadays they form part of routine diagnoses. The expertise and machinery for this and almost all other treatments has to be centralised to make best use of staff and equipment. I have opined in other threads that what are called clerical staff and managers replace what some nurses and doctors did previously, freeing medical people for their vocation.

As far as throwing money at the problem, this is what consultants and others lobbied for, to increase salaries to attract badly needed staff, to invest heavily in new, modern equipment and to try to throw off the old buildings to move into modern purpose built ones. All of this had been put off for years and it needed to be done. There are other innovations too which had and have still to be undertaken such as introducing taking advantage of new technology in the computer field. This is gradually coming in and it has to be paid for. Meanwhile, as Lester said, overall, in spite of greater expectations, patients are, in general, cared for well. Of course, there will be difficulties such as MRSA, consultants and nurses killing off elderly patients (with the best of intentions) but looking at the whole picture, it does not justify saying "you must have your eyes and ears closed" just because someone has a different point of view.

Thos.

[andsome]

I am not denying that there are many dedicated professionals in the NHS. Have you however read about the terrible waste that goes on. This money could be spent on patients.

[catgate]

There are other innovations too which had and have still to be undertaken such as introducing taking advantage of new technology in the computer field.

Have you seen how much has already been spent (and wasted) in this area.

Up until a few years ago my wife was a medical secretary at one of the big Northern general hospitals. She was secretarty to two orthopeadic surgeons. Some of the tales of waste and mismanagement were unbelievable. An enormous amount of management nest feathering went on, paid for by economy in the lower ranks. She is still in touch quite regularly with one or two of the other secretaries who are still there and nothing changes...well it gets worse. One particular friend is actually "staying late" (unpaid) almost every night so that she can do what extra is being piled on, and they are still "economising". They are using computers, but in a way that is counter productive.

[r4may]

The NHS hospitals still give a good service given the resources they have and the fact that they are 'Top Heavy' with management.

A case of too many Chiefs and not enough Indians mainly.

[andsome]

The NHS hospitals still give a good service given the resources they have and the fact that they are 'Top Heavy' with management.

A case of too many Chiefs and not enough Indians mainly.

Exactly what I've been saying.

[expertec]

Our local hospital is having to close a ward because of financial problems... the money just isn't where it's needed.

http://suttonobserver.co.uk/displayNode.js...wsNodeId=185918

[lester1]

"but you must have your eyes and ears closed to what is happening".

andsome I find that remark verging on insulting.

I form my opinions on personal experiences and the things that affect myself and my family, and the circumstances that prevail where I live. Therefore your comment is both inaccurate and ill informed and made without thought or knowledge of my situation, I do see and hear whats happening where I live, not news items or articles in the media.

This morning my wife woke up with severe pain and discomfort and after a phone call of some 5 minutes was given an immediate appointment to see her consultant. We had to travel some 15 miles to the hospital for treatment but thats where the treatment center for our area is.

I am sure that any major undertaking will suffer from problems and miss management particularly when huge capital investment is involved, who is going to manage the change? not the medical staff they look after patents. Miss management is unfortunately prevalent in most industries the NHS is no different.

I reiterate my comment about having more faith in the present Government to look after my familys health than to rely upon the previous government.

Do not presume to tell me what I can See or Hear

[andsome]

I apologise if you feel insulted. It is difficult at times to get a point across in a way which will not cause offence. I can assure you that I NEVER deliberately insult anyone on the forum. It just seemed to me that you had missed the points in the links that I had posted. I have already acknowledged the marvellous work that dedicated individuals in the NHS do, but still feel that they are NOT getting the support from the powers that be that they deserve, and that the system is unfortunately top heavy with managers that could well be done without. Many billions of pounds are going toward paying people to shuffle paper and reports etc. I have friends who have worked in the NHS until recent retirement who have made me aware of this fact. One, who was a nurse spent more of her day filling in paperwork, that in all probability was never used, and in entering useless details on a computer. She spent no more than half of her day on the ward tending patients. She was in the NHS for most of her working life, and has seen this kind of thing taking over peoples time more and more. Once again I did not mean for you to feel insulted, but would ask you to acknowledge that there has been far too much political interference in the NHS, instead of leaving the running to those who know best.

[lester1]

I have stated that cases of miss management occur in all industries and that the NHS would be no different.

I agree with the comment that all political partys use it for their own ends and that it would be more benificial to let the service run it's self.

[andsome]

This weeks local paper has just announced that Two more local small but very good hospitals are to close BEFORE a new one is built. Staffordshire Trust have acknowledged that they have been delaying many operations until the next financial year because of lack of cash. Where have all Browns billions gone if not on terrible top heavy management?

[expertec]

...it would be more benificial to let the service run it's self.

I like the sound of that... how's it work?

[Thos]

Where have all Browns billions gone if not on terrible top heavy management?

Not Brown's billions but our billions.

Gone on buying new equipment needed as advances are made in diagnoses. Gone on bring up the pay scales for doctors and nurses. Gone on training more and more staff to cope with demand. Gone on building new hospitals to replace the old decrepit buildings.

And yes, gone on putting in management to relieve medical staff of that burden and free them for their vocation.

All of these sort of things are not done on a whim by someone named Gordon Brown or indeed Tony Blair but on advice from the NHS and the medical services.

I wouldn't suggest that the NHS is perfect, far from it, but it has improved enormously overall and still has a long way to go.

Thos.

[lester1]

Where have all Browns billions gone if not on terrible top heavy management?

Not Brown's billions but our billions.

Gone on buying new equipment needed as advances are made in diagnoses. Gone on bring up the pay scales for doctors and nurses. Gone on training more and more staff to cope with demand. Gone on building new hospitals to replace the old decrepit buildings.

And yes, gone on putting in management to relieve medical staff of that burden and free them for their vocation.

All of these sort of things are not done on a whim by someone named Gordon Brown or indeed Tony Blair but on advice from the NHS and the medical services.

I wouldn't suggest that the NHS is perfect, far from it, but it has improved enormously overall and still has a long way to go.

Thos.

Well said Thos I totally agree

[andsome]

Halve the number of bureaucrats, and things would improve overnight.

[Thos]

Halve the number of bureaucrats, and things would improve overnight.

Depends which half you keep'

I suspect you would want the bottom half of the females. :tongue:

Thos.

[andsome]

Halve the number of bureaucrats, and things would improve overnight.

Depends which half you keep'

I suspect you would want the bottom half of the females. :tongue:

Thos.

Dare I answer that one?????? :ph34r:

[expertec]

No, don't you dare. :dry:

[catgate]

Dare I answer that one?????? ph34r.gif

There's nothing to be afraid of. I wrote to the BBC holiday programme several years ago, and asked them where I could book a holiday exploring the lower slopes and upper reaches of Ann Greg...but they did not answer!!

[r4may]

Halve the number of bureaucrats, and things would improve overnight.

Depends which half you keep'

I suspect you would want the bottom half of the females. :tongue:

Thos.

I prefer my females whole :wink:

[catgate]

I prefer my females whole :wink:

I've heard about men like you! :wink: