Mad hatter's tea party.

[catgate]

Here is a little something to ponder on.

Over the years people have realised that the way to avoid the costs, the upheaval, the consumption of resources and all the concomitant problems of unwanted children, is to practice some form of birth control, i.e. stop the problem happening in the first place.

The East Riding Council, like most others around the country, is embarking on a gigantic scheme to recycle 45% of the county’s rubbish. At first sight it looks like a very modern, progressive and public spirited move. However, all this is going to put up costs and inconvenience the population, with wheelie bins and tubs of differing hues and shapes, and the roads are going to be forever full of a miscellany of collection vehicles. It is also going to supply cheap partially processed raw materials to a variety of industries. So obviously there will be another “justifiable” rise in Council Tax or an additional fee (or fine) for waste collection.

There has never been a word out of any government source (local or national) about legislating to prevent the cause of the problem, only about ways of getting rid of its results. No mention of cutting down on packaging materials, stopping the use/sale of disposable plastic items, which are using up oil reserves, using returnable glass bottles instead of those cans which seem to stretch in a long line from one end of the country to the other, etc

Yet we just sit back and look on in wonderment..

[Thos]

There has never been a word out of any government source (local or national) about legislating to prevent the cause of the problem, only about ways of getting rid of its results. No mention of cutting down on packaging materials, stopping the use/sale of disposable plastic items, which are using up oil reserves, using returnable glass bottles instead of those cans which seem to stretch in a long line from one end of the country to the other, etc

Yet we just sit back and look on in wonderment..

I have mixed feelings about the use of legislation on packaging, plastics, cans, etc., though I can see your point. The customer asks for goods to be well packaged as does the transport industry. We will never go back to the days of buying a half pound of garibaldis dispensed from a biscuit tin. (with the remainders being sold cheaply as "broken biscuits"). We require our white goods, our electricals, our household lamps etc to be safely packed.

Canning has been a practice for a long time now and re-cycling cans seems to me to be a better solution than banning their use. Nevertheless, I am in sympathy with the thought of using glass bottles more, though again the virtues of plastics for its low weight and safety mean it would be difficult ever to reverse the trend.

Re-cycling looks to be the only option even in the East Riding.

Thos.

[andsome]

Lichfield District Council is one of the top recycling councils in the country. We have two different wheelie bins, one for non recyclable rubbish and the other for compostable stuff. We also have two green boxes, one for cans, glass and plastic, and one for paper and cardboard. These two boxes are sorted at the kerbside by the bin men. The whole scheme works very well, and the council makes a very good return on selling the composted materials. Give the sceme a chance.

[catgate]

The customer asks for goods to be well packaged as does the transport industry.

The customer is never asked. The marketing men decide what "art work" they want in order to display the worth of the product and then some "packaging engineer" comes up with the most "cost effective" solution. A couple of transit trials are carried out and there you go.

As far as the transport industy is concerned they seem to take a delight in trying to break things, and the fact that "protective packaging" is used seems to absolve them from the duty of care. They can not see what it is, and it is protected, so it can be handled (or mishandled) in any convenient way. I had an in depth talk to a DHL driver one day, when he delivered us yet another mangled parcel, and he described the handling methods used in the depot. He also told me that the number of damaged packages about 10%

There are millions of pounds worth of White Goods, Houshold Electricals, Furniture etc delivered throughout the country every day without packaging and they arrive in perfectl, undamaged condition. They are delivered by Removal Van, staffed by people who know they have a responsibility. They can see what they are dealing with and can exercise the appropriate care.

and the council makes a very good return on selling the composted materials

Do they...or is it all run by WMG, who seem to be all over the country like a bad rash. They seem to getting into bed with most councils.

It seems to me that as the public we are paying twice for unwanted and largely unneeded waste. We are charged for it in the product cost (and we pay VAT on it) and we are then charged for its disposal. Then the council or WMG make a profit on it. This should really be set against its collection costs rather than leaving the waste collection element of the council tax the same.

[rong]

Once again I agree whole heartedly with catgate, he must be mellowing in his old age.

[Thos]

There are millions of pounds worth of White Goods, Houshold Electricals, Furniture etc delivered throughout the country every day without packaging and they arrive in perfectl, undamaged condition. They are delivered by Removal Van, staffed by people who know they have a responsibility. They can see what they are dealing with and can exercise the appropriate care.

Are you prepared to pay removal van rates for your everday goods? In any event, I have had three moves and each one has incurred damage and loss.

Thos.

[andsome]

I agree that the amount of packaging material is frequently overdone. That apart, you cannot suggest that people concrete over their gardens, and not grow plants. These plants in many cases produce growth that is very difficult to compost at home. Our council collect branches up to about 2 inches thick for composting, something beyond the scope of most people.

[catgate]

Are you prepared to pay removal van rates for your everday goods? In any event, I have had three moves and each one has incurred damage and loss.

You must pick some rotten removal firms. However, I am sure the more you practice the better you will get. Just keep on moving and it will all work out in the end.

But seriously, think of the cost of the insurance needed to cover the amount of damage wreaked upon parcels and goods each day through careless handling, because of packaging.

Our council collect branches up to about 2 inches thick for composting, something beyond the scope of most people

I am sure we could allow the collection of anything over 1 inch if the appropriate forms were filled in.

Again on a serious note, it was recently reported that many community composting schemes up and down the country had been forced to shut down by Defra because they contravened new legislation about "dumps" as defined by our overlords in Brussels.

Another example of Christian Government i.e. the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.

Once again I agree whole heartedly with catgate, he must be mellowing in his old age.

Are you sure it is not that you are catching up with the rest of us?

[catgate]

Re the inadequacy of current packaging for it role as a protection.

This morning (Mon.) I received the bits for my new linux box of nonsense. A new tower, mother board, CPU and RAM.

They are coming with a new tower tomorrow (Tuesday) and taking the old new one away. It got stuffed in transit (City Link). I have had three towers delivered here over the last three years and two of them have suffered just the same fate.

I took pictures but I don't seem to be able to post them.

Without doubt it would have arrived in better condition if the driver knew that its condition would be seen as he handed it over.

[andsome]

How much more helpful can a council be?

Click here

Compost available here

[CurlyWhirly]

I'm all for recycling personally as I recently saw a TV programme showing how we used to dispose of rubbish in land fill sites and it was an eye opener :0

This was, of course, before recycling became as popular as it is now with local councils.

[catgate]

I'm all for recycling personally as I recently saw a TV programme showing how we used to dispose of rubbish in land fill sites and it was an eye opener :0

This was, of course, before recycling became as popular as it is now with local councils.

The question is not whether to recycle or not, it is whether more effort should be put into conserving raw materials, and the planet, by not creating that which becomes rubbish in the first place.

I got my new case this morning, and started to assemble things. When I opened the Intel CPU box and saw the "instructions" I was dumbfounded. The bloody thing is printed in 15 languages. Not only does this show the attitude of Intel to its customers ( Sort your way through this lot buddy!) but they have laid waste to 15 times more rain forest than was needed. They are not on their own.

[andsome]

I got my new case this morning, and started to assemble things. When I opened the Intel CPU box and saw the "instructions" I was dumbfounded. The bloody thing is printed in 15 languages. Not only does this show the attitude of Intel to its customers ( Sort your way through this lot buddy!) but they have laid waste to 15 times more rain forest than was needed. They are not on their own.

That really does get up my craw. We have quite a few instruction booklets which are quite thick, and we only need two or three pages of them. Wrappers also annoy me, have you ever tried to see what is in a chocolate or or an ice cream? They even have Martian and Klingon on some of them.

[AlanHo]

I made this posting almost 3 years ago - things have clearly got no better.

Click here

[CurlyWhirly]

The question is not whether to recycle or not, it is whether more effort should be put into conserving raw materials, and the planet, by not creating that which becomes rubbish in the first place.

I expect, like so many things, it will all come down to cost i.e. is it economically viable to conserve raw materials as we are so used to a 'throw away society' though this is slowly changing now which is good news.

[catgate]

come down to cost i.e. is it economically viable to conserve raw materials as we are so used to a 'throw away so

It depends who answers the question. The manufacturer will always answer "No", because he is not going to carry the cost, it is going to be passed on to the consumer, who is then going to have to pay for its disposal. What is worse about this is the fact that as the product is passed from manufacturer to wholesaler to stockist to retailer each one of them adds on his mark up. This mark up goes on the packaging in addition to the product. So the customer is finally paying far more for the packing than the manufacturer did.

They also have the old well worn lie, "IT'S WHAT OUR CUSTOMERS WANT". How do you know that? "Oh we know our customers very well."

[CurlyWhirly]

It depends who answers the question. The manufacturer will always answer "No", because he is not going to carry the cost, it is going to be passed on to the consumer, who is then going to have to pay for its disposal. What is worse about this is the fact that as the product is passed from manufacturer to wholesaler to stockist to retailer each one of them adds on his mark up. This mark up goes on the packaging in addition to the product. So the customer is finally paying far more for the packing than the manufacturer did.

They also have the old well worn lie, "IT'S WHAT OUR CUSTOMERS WANT". How do you know that? "Oh we know our customers very well."

Very true Catgate.