It is nice to that someone who cares

[catgate]

It is just a pity that they do not think.

Announcing the move, Sainsbury's Chief Executive Justin King, said: "We're now confident that putting 500 types of our food, from ready meals to organics, in compostable packaging will significantly help to reduce the packaging that most threatens the environment. It also creates an opportunity for customers to dispose of their own waste at home."

Mr King urged the government to ensure that every home in Britain was supplied with a compost bin.

What are all the millions living in flats and highrise blocks going to do with compost? (I shall not make a joke about who they can throw it at.)

[andsome]

The point is that those of us who are supplied with bins for compostable materials can dispose of this packaging in a better fashion. It is a small step in the right direction.

[rong]

Why do you need bins? some pallets or some old sheets of tin (even better) and some posts do a better job of making compost.

[Scarthy © ® ™]

...and they would like you to buy their products and make them richer and richer (ha ha ha ha ha ha ha <---evil corporate laugh). ;)

[catgate]

The point is that those of us who are supplied with bins for compostable materials can dispose of this packaging in a better fashion. It is a small step in the right direction.

My point is that there are millions of homes that have no means of disposing of compost other that in the dustbin. Think of all the back-to-backs, high rise blocks, flats and bedsits. Still I suppose if Mr King gets the contract for supplying then to "every home in Britain" he will be wasting very little more than is already wasted on hare brained schemes.

[gordythegouge]

...and they would like you to buy their products and make them richer and richer (ha ha ha ha ha ha ha <---evil corporate laugh). ;)

Boy.....that laugh was spooky! :lol:

[-pops-]

There is a material called paper which can be used for wrapping articles and goods. It's quite low cost and can be produced in very large quantities.

There is also a material called regenerated cellulose which goes under the trade name Cellophane which has been around for over 100 years and is derived from wood (same as much paper), is completely transparent, fully biodegradable and cheap.

The technology for manufacturing both of these materials is available and widely used.

Why go to all of this fancy rectal orifice-like compostable corn and/or starch derived (expensive) polymer material????????????

[catgate]

There is a material called paper which can be used for wrapping articles and goods. It's quite low cost and can be produced in very large quantities.

There is also a material called regenerated cellulose which goes under the trade name Cellophane which has been around for over 100 years and is derived from wood (same as much paper), is completely transparent, fully biodegradable and cheap.

The technology for manufacturing both of these materials is available and widely used.

Why go to all of this fancy rectal orifice-like compostable corn and/or starch derived (expensive) polymer material????????????

And does one get "green" brownie points for using these olde fashyoned stuffs, and does it justify popping a few coppers on each item?

[Besty]

Its a step in the right direction as was so correctly pointed out by someone else. The rubbish will decompose at the landfill sites even this will make a difference more initiatives like this should definately be being thought out. Hopefully this will spur other companies to use these sorts of packaging.

[deuces wild]

Its a step in the right direction as was so correctly pointed out by someone else. The rubbish will decompose at the landfill sites even this will make a difference more initiatives like this should definately be being thought out. Hopefully this will spur other companies to use these sorts of packaging.

Another great post Besty!

I don't understand how anyone can complain about a step in the right direction. ;)

But some people constantly see the glass as half empty for some reason.

[Besty]

Thanks for the compliment mate. Yea i know what you mean but hey everyone has a bita optimism in em it just needs to be released ;) lol

[catgate]

I find it odd that some people constantly only use their eyes when reading.

[deuces wild]

Thanks for the compliment mate. Yea i know what you mean but hey everyone has a bita optimism in em it just needs to be released ;) lol

I hope you mean pessimism. ;)

But when one is continuously pessimistic about their view on life it has to suck. ;)

[Thos]

Catgate is right in that not everyone has a garden and it is useless for them to make compost. The material have to go in the normal rubbish. But of course it will then decompose quickly in the landfill sites which will be helpful. Because of that it is a step in the right direction.

But we should buy the sort of goods which will be packed in these containers not by container but by selection from the loose stock of apples, tomatoes, potatoes and so on.

Thos.

[catgate]

But we should buy the sort of goods which will be packed in these containers not by container but by selection from the loose stock of apples, tomatoes, potatoes and so on.

Thos.

We already do, and always have done. But it is as much out of inherent Yorkshire thrift (ok, meanness then) as it is new age greenness.

[andsome]

Surely the whole point is that this company is now moving toward more environmentally friendly packaging. If this packaging ends up in landfill then it will rot down quicker, which is good. If however it is put into recycling bins as supplied by many councils then that is even better. As I have said in previous threads, Lichfield council which collects our rubbish, has a first class recycling scheme, and is one of the top councils regarding this matter in the country. The council makes and sells many tons of excellent compost from stuff put into peoples brown wheelie bins, and if packaging can now be included in addition to the prunings etc that are already composted, then that has to be good. In all honesty I cannot understand anyone objecting to this, purely on the point that not everyone will compost this packaging.

[-pops-]

The thing I object to in this marketing stunt is that Sainsbury's are pushing to use of a synthetic polymer which requires quite involved chemical processing to get it into a form suitable for use as a packaging material.

Paper and Cellophane already exist, they are processed natural materials but they maintain their original integrity and will degrade (form compost) in the same way as any other plant based cellulose material. I am very doubtful the same can be said about this new stuff. Yes, OK, it may degrade but into what? A starch derivative is said to be one of its components but what about the rest of it?

I'm not sure but, I've an idea that this "wonder material" is poly[isosorbide terephthalate]. The isosorbide is the part that is derived from starch (by complex chemical processing) but what about the other component which makes up half the molecule. Natural it is not, neither is it biodegradable.

Most supermarkets already supply paper bags for loose mushrooms (or should that be non-prepacked?). Why not extend this to the bags for all the choose-your-own goods?

Why don't more people buy the loose produce?

Why pay over the odds (sometimes a lot over the odds) to have had some low paid person do the bagging for you?

Have you noticed also that in these prepacked fresh fruit and vegetables there is almost always one, or more, that's well on the way to being un-fresh or is bruised?

[catgate]

As I remember it terephthalic acid itself is insoluble in water, and in any case its precurser is xylene. Not a very green material.

[Besty]

It is probably more airtight or keeps the food fresher. Im not 100% certain but its the reason I can think of that they put money into researching new technologies etc.

P.S never knew cellophane was biodegradable I guess you really do learn something new ever day :)

[-pops-]

Cellophane is definitely biodegradable. Remember though that a lot of transparent film materials commonly called cellophane are not regenerated cellulose but a synthetic polymer - PVC, PET, PP, etc.

Being airtight is not a desirable property with fresh food packaging as it encourages water condensation within the pack and the quicker development of moulds and rot. That's why a lot of these packs are perforated.

If the "wonder film" is as I surmised, it isn't a new development but one that's been touted around various industries for quite some time looking for a market. The biggest problem in it finding a commercial use was its cost but now it's becoming a must have fashion packaging product, cost is not so important.

Cynical? Moi?

[dadyassa]

I dont know about now but when I lived in BC Canada in the seventies all supermarket stuff was put in paperbags instead of plastic carriers.

[-pops-]

I dont know about now but when I lived in BC Canada in the seventies all supermarket stuff was put in paperbags instead of plastic carriers.

Should be like that now.

The vogue for plastic carriers started in the days when oil was so plentiful it was almost being given away and new uses had to be found for it to take care of all excesses of this black stuff gushing out of the ground. A time when chemistry was king, queen and all the royal court of existence with any and all new developments in the petrochemical industry being exploited to their fullest. Plastics were used for just about everything - some uses being totally unsuitable but used just the same. We are now paying for that in a lot of respects just as we are paying for the indiscriminate use of halogenated pesticides, the destruction of the atmospheric natural UV barrier with CFC aerosol propellants and the choking of the country with ever increasing quantities of supermarket plastic dross.

[andsome]

I am getting out of my depth here now. All I know is that the first posting mentioned COMPOSTABLE material. If this material is compostable, I cannot see any problem. Bio degradable was not mentioned, as I said, the word was COMPOSTABLE

[Besty]

Cellophane is definitely biodegradable. Remember though that a lot of transparent film materials commonly called cellophane are not regenerated cellulose but a synthetic polymer - PVC, PET, PP, etc.

Being airtight is not a desirable property with fresh food packaging as it encourages water condensation within the pack and the quicker development of moulds and rot. That's why a lot of these packs are perforated.

If the "wonder film" is as I surmised, it isn't a new development but one that's been touted around various industries for quite some time looking for a market. The biggest problem in it finding a commercial use was its cost but now it's becoming a must have fashion packaging product, cost is not so important.

Cynical? Moi?

I wasnt being sarcastic mate I was just saying about how I never knew that before. But at the end of the day no matter what they are using is the main thing not that it is better to the environment than the containers that take hundreds of years to rot away?

[-pops-]

I realise you weren't being sarcastic. I'm sorry if my reply made it appear that way. The point I was making is that cellophane has become something of a generic term - much like Biro and Hoover - for any transparent flexible film.

Your point about composting and biodegradable, andsome: compost is partially biodegraded vegetable matter so they are, in effect, one in the same. On a practical point, I regularly put ripped up old newspaper in the compost, especially if there's a lot of grass clippings amongst it. I like to think the snakes appreciate it.