VAT ???

[catgate]

We were once again off line, a few weeks ago, thanks to the duff bits of string through which BT try to push electrons. I got the incoming calls transfered to the mobile and Sanjeev's sister told me I would get £1 per day recompence whilst the line was down, and thank you for calling. We were off for 14 days (£14).

I got a letter, some time later, from a Jillian J Lewis (Customer Service Director). She had pleasure in telling me they had credited my account with £11.55 (£14 minus VAT rounded in their favour!!!)

So I wrote back to her and asked how the loss of the use of a telephone could be classed as having any "Added Value". I pointed out that if it was to be considered as a repayment of part of my line rental, BT should be repaying me the VAT that I had already paid to them on that line rental. If on the other hand it was a Gesture of Goodwill, or compensation payment, or even conscience money they were in the wrong in seeing any sort of taxable value in the service I did not get.

Of course she did not reply. However, one of Sanjeevs other sisters rang this afternoon, to explain to me that £11.55 was the correct amount, after tax has been taken from £14. She confirmed, when I asked he, that she understood what the letters V A and T stood for and no, she could not see how the loss of service was a thing that could be looked upon as having any value.

After giving her more of the benefit of my thoughts on the matter and telling her that I was going to take the matter up with the Inland Revenue (or whoever they are calling themselves this week) she said she was empowered to offer me £20 further compensation, and would that be acceptable to me.!!!!!

I still think I should persue the issue because it seems totally illogical and illegal.

Any views?

I am still trying to understand how my paying my line rental by cheque now costs them more. I can under stand how paying by direct debit would cost them less. Their classification of the £4.50 as a "discrete fee" and not a "penalty charge" has a terrible smell of Brown about it. As does the fiddling with the rest of the numbers to try to make it all seem less significant.

[trackrat]

Welcome to the world of monopolies.

They do not live in the real world and despite all these so called regulators, they still do as they please.

If I was you I would accept the extra £20 and call it a day.

[AlanHo]

Accept the £20 - but expect to get only £17.02 less the £11.55 they have already so generously paid you.

Hence you can look forward to a further £5.47 and Mr Brown will benefit to the tune of £2.98.

Which sponsors a thought - do you reckon he sneaks around in the night cutting people's telephone wires to raise more revenue...?

[andsome]

BT is no longer a monopoly, but most of these big company's are trying this sort of thing on. How else do you expect them to pay the directors bonus's of several million pounds? Spare a little thought for them, and take the money and run. I forget off hand which company it is, but it was on the news yesterday, a director had been in the job for six months, and retired with a pension fund of £20,000,000. It's all getting VERY obscene. Let's have a peasants revolution.

The local councils are also at it. Staffordshire county Council want to close ALL its care homes to save money, and at the same time are paying several consultants on contract £1000 per day each .

[catgate]

.......and Mr Brown will benefit to the tune of £2.98.

I have serious doubt as to whether Mr Brown will ever see it!

Does he have a Recompense/Gratuity Tax?

[Thos]

I personally think you have a good and serious point here and you make it well in your opening post (apart from the last para which highlights a stinking but legal procedure.

If BT are repaying you money they have already taken, they should repay you the VAT they have taken on behalf of the Treasury (and it is not necessary to muddy the waters by once again denigrating Gordon Brown). If , however the payment is compensation, surely no VAT is payable. Perhaps one of the Sunday papers, Sunday Times for example, would investigate?

Incidentally, you infer, catgate, that you were offered this £1 per day without asking for it. I had never known it was available. My phone was down twice in quick succession some months ago and although the engineers worked hard digging the road up and making repairs, I never thought of £1 per day.

Thos.

[andsome]

£1 won't go far these days will it? :D

[catgate]

Incidentally, you infer, catgate, that you were offered this £1 per day without asking for it. I had never known it was available.

Thos.

I think after Rhaksha has looked at the records, that come up by giving me the inquisition, she has found that we have constant problems, and may be we are "flagged" as worthy of recompense, just to keep us quiet.

This is not the first time we have had this compensation. Previously it has only been for a few days and has been credited to my account without me taking any real notice. On this occasion cicumstances have caused me to take a little more interest.

Our neighbour is on "business rate" and gets £5 per day.

And, as far as the Non Direct Debit con goes, I still think "Their classification of the £4.50 as a "discrete fee" and not a "penalty charge" has a terrible smell of Brown about it. As does the fiddling with the rest of the numbers to try to make it all seem less significant." I do not think he is behind it, but I am sure it is straight out of his "Chancellors Guide to Raising Money by Backdoor Methods".

[Thos]

And, as far as the Non Direct Debit con goes, I still think "Their classification of the £4.50 as a "discrete fee" and not a "penalty charge" has a terrible smell of Brown about it. As does the fiddling with the rest of the numbers to try to make it all seem less significant." I do not think he is behind it, but I am sure it is straight out of his "Chancellors Guide to Raising Money by Backdoor Methods".

There you go!. I think it a straightforward business decision by a firm wanting to get everyone over to direct debit, thus enabling them to prevent default on bills. I, personally, do not care for DD, and, unless there is no option (such as Sky) I don't sign up for it.

Thos.

[andsome]

I have used direct debit for everything possible for a long time now, with NO problems whatsoever. I just couldn't be bothered with sending out cheques in envelopes and going out to post them in all weathers.

[r4may]

I do not use Direct Debits as you are passing some control of your bank account to someone else who can take what they like when they like and you then have to fight to get it back IF you find out that they took it.

[CurlyWhirly]

I do not use Direct Debits as you are passing some control of your bank account to someone else who can take what they like when they like and you then have to fight to get it back IF you find out that they took it.

Not necessarily as Direct Debit is covered by the Direct Debit Guarantee

The direct debit guarantee applies to all banks and building societies taking part in the direct debit scheme. It says that:

1. If there is a change in the amount to be paid or the payment date, the person receiving the payment (the originator) must notify the customer in advance.

2. If the originator or the bank/building society makes an error, the customer is guaranteed a full and immediate refund of the amount paid.

3. Customers can cancel a direct debit at any time by writing to their bank or building society.

[andsome]

I can only repeat. I HAVE NEVER EVER HAD ANY PROBLEMS WITH DIRECT DEBIT. In addition I have saved both time and stamp and envelope money. Get with the times. The thing to do is NOT to let anyone take regular payments off a credit card. This can lead to problems.

[CurlyWhirly]

I can only repeat. I HAVE NEVER EVER HAD ANY PROBLEMS WITH DIRECT DEBIT.

Nor me and I have been using Direct Debit for over 10 years!

In addition I have saved both time and stamp and envelope money.

Yes I've saved a packet as well not to mention the discount on my gas and electricity bill because I pay by Direct Debit.

The thing to do is NOT to let anyone take regular payments off a credit card. This can lead to problems.

Yes as it can be difficult to stop payments being taken off a credit card due to the Recurring Transaction Authority

recurring transaction

An authority to charge a transaction to a credit or charge card at regular intervals (typically monthly), granted by the cardholder to a merchant, retailer or other service provider. The term 'recurring transaction' may apply equally to one of the transactions or to the authority under which these are charged. Formerly known as a continuous authority transaction.

[catgate]

I used to have a friend who was quite pleased to pay by direct debit, and was quite pleased that he always got rebate/returned overpayment at the end of every year, i.e. of the amount that the service provider had overcharged him. It never occured to him that they were gaining interest on it whilst it was in their bank.

It has always seemed folly to open up ones wallet and say to any passer by "Please help youself".

I suppose it is a fairly efficient way of putting people out of work in this country and being able to employ machines and foreigners to make money for "the company".

[andsome]

I think that you have missed the real point. I pay my fuel bills by direct debit. My electricity works out at £24 per month throughout the year. I have just received my latest statement, which shows that I used electricity to the value of just under £100. Instead of having to pay this in one lump sum, I am still in fact £3 in credit. My last gas statement was for over £150, against regular payments of £36 per month. I much prefer to spread my payments in this fashion, rather than be burdened with a large payment all in one go. My income does not increase in the winter to pay these large amounts.

[AlanHo]

I think that you have missed the real point. I pay my fuel bills by direct debit. My electricity works out at £24 per month throughout the year. I have just received my latest statement, which shows that I used electricity to the value of just under £100. Instead of having to pay this in one lump sum, I am still in fact £3 in credit. My last gas statement was for over £150, against regular payments of £36 per month. I much prefer to spread my payments in this fashion, rather than be burdened with a large payment all in one go. My income does not increase in the winter to pay these large amounts.

Blimey - I wish my electric bill was only £24 per month.

You must be the bloke who keeps the manufacturers of 25 watt bulbs in business.

On a serious note - I too pay as much as possible by Direct Debit and have never had a problem.

The rest I put on a credit card which earns air miles, and pay the card off every month. It doesn't cost any more to use a card with most services - so why not derive some benefit.

[Thos]

I think that you have missed the real point. I pay my fuel bills by direct debit. My electricity works out at £24 per month throughout the year. I have just received my latest statement, which shows that I used electricity to the value of just under £100. Instead of having to pay this in one lump sum, I am still in fact £3 in credit. My last gas statement was for over £150, against regular payments of £36 per month. I much prefer to spread my payments in this fashion, rather than be burdened with a large payment all in one go. My income does not increase in the winter to pay these large amounts.

To each his own.

But I don't think it is catgate who has missed the real point. Some of us do not wish to give anyone the freedom to access our bank accounts even with the safeguards in place. I sign up to D. D. when I have to but not otherwise. I pay all my bills on-line and do not need to use envelopes or trips to the post box.

And I keep my pennies in MY account until I have to fork out! :)

Thos.

[CurlyWhirly]

It never occured to him that they were gaining interest on it whilst it was in their bank.

That is, of course, true but I also gain as I get a 5% discount on my electricity and gas bills and don't have to pay quarterly bills all in one lump sum.

I prefer to spread the cost out over the quarter.

[CurlyWhirly]

I pay my fuel bills by direct debit. My electricity works out at £24 per month throughout the year.

My electricity bill is also £24 a month, what a coincidence!

I use low energy bulbs, which apart from lasting a lot longer than conventional bulbs, they also are environmentally friendly as they only use a percentage of what normal bulbs use and this certainly helps with my electric bill especially in the winter!

[CurlyWhirly]

I pay all my bills on-line and do not need to use envelopes or trips to the post box.

That's another way to pay bills and is also convenient as, like you said, it saves having to post the payments.

The only thing is that you don't benefit from a Direct Debit discount this way but it balances out as you keep the money in your account earning interest until you need to pay the bill.

[andsome]

I pay my fuel bills by direct debit. My electricity works out at £24 per month throughout the year.

My electricity bill is also £24 a month, what a coincidence!

I use low energy bulbs, which apart from lasting a lot longer than conventional bulbs, they also are environmentally friendly as they only use a percentage of what normal bulbs use and this certainly helps with my electric bill especially in the winter!

We use low wattage bulbs in almost all the fittings. I also get 10% discount for entering my own meter readings on line, and for using direct debit, plus Nectar points. The nectar points are well worth while as we use them to get money off our groceries at Sainsbury's.

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[catgate]

By hecky thump. With all those Nectar points you amass on a £24 per month electric bill you must be living like a lord. No wonder you can afford to have meat on the table at least once a week.

[Thos]

By hecky thump. With all those Nectar points you amass on a £24 per month electric bill you must be living like a lord. No wonder you can afford to have meat on the table at least once a week.

I must have missed where he said he has his meat on the table once a week.

Thos.