Just for Alanho

[catgate]

By the way catgate - your adventures in returning damaged stuff could be the script for your next series of little stories.

I have just sat down after, I hope, completing one of those silly "it should never have happened" series of events, the last of which started about five years ago. I shall writ it in the next couple of days as a separate post.

http://forums.windowsforum.org/index.php?s...c=35328&hl=

This series of problems started when we decided to move from the wonderful, but over moist, Yorkshire Dales to somewhere drier. We were advised by the nice man at the met. office that the Vale of York area was at the upper end of the "second driest" area of the country (a strip from Cambs. through Lincs. into the Vale of York.......the driest, being Thames valley, was totally beyond our means ..or desires).

After quite a bit of searching we found our present residence. It was only about ten years old and was a bungalow set in the orchard of a farm which had "failed" after the death of the farmer. The bungalow had been built for one of the sons.

Superficially it looked very good, and in fact we were only in the place about twenty minutes before we had agreed a deal. There were the usual odds and ends that were not to our taste but they would be readily dealt with...improvements to lighting, bathroom cupboards etc. But then no house is ever "just right".

There was a Rayburn stove which was not lit due to the warm weather. Management asked how they managed for hot water in summer, and of course, "We use the immersion heater...in fact we leave it on all the time".

"What fuel do you use in the Rayburrn, coke or coal?"

"Oh we get 'petcoke' from Jim Scroggins at Snark, it is cheaper than ordinary coke, and is just as good"

So we eventually moved in, in November, after all the formalities were completed and their boat had arrived. (They were going to live in a boat on the Derwent, but because of floods could not get it up the locks near Goole until everything had returned to normal).

The first of our trials was the hot water. The Rayburn would not heat the water, no matter how much fuel was fed into it. We realised why we were told "...in fact we leave it on all the time".

The heating coil in the hot water cylinder was connected the wrong way round and science was not going to allow cold water to rise. That improved things a little.

The next thing was that the radiators were never anything other than "tepid" even with the Rayburn belching out smoke and sulphurous fumes to the max. and bubbling ominously. Then I realised that the circulation pump was not where I would have expected it... next to the boiler in the return line.

I found it up in the loft!

I replumbed and rewired it in to where it should have been, and there was a marginal improvement, but it was still a long way from satisfactory, even with the kitchen full of fumes and soot. Then I made another discovery. The water in the 'flow' pipe away from the Rayburn went up into the loft did a circuit around the loft and came back to the boiler via the pump. At no point was there anything to prevent it just doing that. There was no restriction to persuade the water to go "down stairs". The 'flow' pipe away from the Rayburn should have ended at the entry to the farthest radiator and a separate 'return' pipe should have started at the same radiator, A small matter of a little surgery and a couple of "stop ends" cured that problem...but smothered me in glass wool dust.

The next problem was the Rayburn itself. No matter what was tried it had this overwhelming urge to Go Out. I discovered early on that some of the fire bars needed replacing, but their replacement only had a slight effect (mainly keeping the fire out of the ashpan). When ever the fire was refuelled the kitchen seemed a more attractive place to the smoke and fumes than did the flue. We discovered that the asbestos sealing material round the top of the body was either damaged, incomplete or just badly fitted and this was letting fumes out, or in, depending on the state of the fire. On top of all this was it's insatiable appetite for fuel and the necessity of relighting this paragon of modern country living every bloody morning. It was a total disaster. Every time we refuelled it it was as though the Flying Scotsman had gone through the room. There was soot everywhere and the room was full of smoke and fumes. Management had only ever succeeded in getting the oven hot enough to bake bread twice, and we were accustomed to eating our own home baked bread all the time. It had to come out.

So out it came. I advertised it and a woman from Liverpool came rushing over to prise it out of my hand with money. In getting it out I had to knock a hole into its now redundant chimney, which was built up externally against the kitchen wall. I then discovered that no matter what I had done to the beast it would never have worked properly because the "chimney" had no liner inside it. It was simply an 18 inch square hole into which the flue from the top of the Rayburn emptied. There should have been 6 to 8 inch diameter stainless tube to create a proper controllable flue instead of this yawning cavity. No wonder things were bad. Badly put together, badly installed, and badly maintained.

Fare well Rayburn.

I put in a Baxi Bermuda combination unit into the lounge. (Gas fire with central heating boiler behind). I had put one of these into our first bungalow back in the early 70s and it was a very good thing. It did, however, mean a very major re-jigging of the plumbing and electrics, but the prospect of hot water as required, and radiators that worked, and no more emptying the ashes every morning. and relighting the fire, and ringing up for more petcoke etc. etc. made it a worth while project. In addition since we would be on LPG we could now have a gas hob in the kitchen which to my mind is infinitely superior to the top of a cold Rayburn and also better and quicker than 240V.

Then came the matter of the kitchen and the "hole" left by the removal of he Rayburn's (well two holes.....the space where it had been and the one on the wall). We were fortunate that we could get some cupboards and base units that were only distinguishable from the original ones by very careful scrutiny. So into the space where the Rayburn had been went a base unit, with a hob on top, and above it a bespoke stainless surround, and above that a stainless extractor hood. Whilst the kitchen was in a mess I put a few more sockets in and we were off to the races in fine style.

I shall pass over the detail of the removal of the "chocolate" fireplace in the dining room. In brief it was a waste of space, since it did nothing, other than look tastelessly tawdry. It was made of a floor to ceiling wooden frame, with an arched alcove at each side of the fireplace, and was clad in thin slices of brick. It was right across one end of the room and stuck out almost three feet. It was painted chocolate brown and that colour, coupled with one tungsten lamp, made the room look like something from a bad film set.

After a couple of years of this labour we thought we had cracked it. All was peace and light, until one morning, about four years ago, we found a damp (well ...wet) patch in the hall up against a wall. The wall above it was slightly damp too. So I went up aloft to see what was going on.

There, right above the wall top, was a copper pipe spraying out water. It was just a little hole rather as one would expect a nail point to cause, but there was no nail within feet of it. It was the cold water riser into the two cisterns. I happened to have some plumbing bits in the workshop so I was able to cut out a short length of faulty pipe and put in another piece...without a hole.

When I got the offending piece down below and examined it I was staggered to find that there appeared to be what looked like RUST around the hole in addition to the usual blue copper salt staining. As I looked more closely I could see the start of another brown mark surrounded by blue.

This did little to calm my fear that I may have found another problem building up. So time would tell.

One day, about a year later, there was a sudden and copious flow of water in the utility room, again coming from above. This turned out to be in the same pipe run as the previous hole, but was that part which fed the utility room sink, washing machine and spare loo. This time round I could not get at it, although I could see the fountain. The utility room is a sticky-out bit at the back of the bungalow with a very low roof section, and there was insufficient space for me to get in between the trusses. The plumbing must have been done either before the ceilings were boarded or before the roof tiles were put on. So some slates were going to have to come off so that I could attack it from above.

Being late winter I needed to have the tiles back on again ASAP so I had to call upon the help of

a friend who is in the building trade, and who does "heavy jobs" for me (like concrete work) when needed. I cut out another piece and replaced it as before, but this time there were two holes about a foot apart and the rest of the pipe, both that which I had to leave and that which I removed, showed more signs of "rust" and obvious leak potential. The tiles went back and I realised that I had some more damned plumbing to do.

A few weeks later when the loft temperature was more comfortable I examined all the pipe work and could only see this particular phenomenon in the cold water feed pipe, so I took out what I could, and bye passed that which I could not. It meant re-routing the H & C supply to the utility room through the third bedroom wall, but at least it would solve the problem for good.

About a fortnight ago management had been using the outside tap. A few days after that I realised that part of the wall near the tap, and the tarmac path below it, were still 'wet' looking. So I asked her if she had been using it again. Well you know what is coming.

The rising main enters the bungalow directly below the kitchen sink and after a spur off to the kitchen tap, it shoot up into the loft, boxed in (along with the returning hot pipe) in the corner of the kitchen.

When I got access to the pipes in the boxing I found that they both have joints in them eighteen inches below ceiling level and above that the pipes look perfect. Below that the hot one looks faultless but the cold one ......Oh dear. Leaking like a colander.

I am, as I write, waiting for the plaster to dry after replacing both the pipes, from just above the joins, and repairing the "boxing in". Fortunately, during the re-jigging of the kitchen, all the pipes below the bottom of the "boxing in" were replaced, for reasons not connected with self holing pipe,

What next?

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Well here's what....I jest not.

After writing the above I was messing about with the accompanying pipe photo's when the telephone rang. It was the estate agent to tell me he had some prospective purchasers (*) who would like to look round at 3.30 this afternoon.......and us with the kitchen looking like a bomb has dropped and kitchen stuff scattered the length of the house.

Bring 'em on!!!

(*) The garden now seems to be 20 times as big as it was eight years ago so we are hoping to sell.

[andsome]

Will you be glad to move?? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Irene]

What a trauma, catgate! :0

I do hope that the prospective purchasers are interested and wish to proceed.

[Dencandy]

I do hope that the prospective purchasers are interested and wish to proceed.

I hope for your sake they don't read this forum. :0

[AlanHo]

Yet another fascinating tale - even though it is "sprinkled and awash" with a fiar amount of plumbing problems for you to overcome.

You certainly plumb the depths - I wish you well in your endeavour to sell the house. Have you yet found another?.

[catgate]

Yet another fascinating tale - even though it is "sprinkled and awash" with a fiar amount of plumbing problems for you to overcome.

You certainly plumb the depths - I wish you well in your endeavour to sell the house. Have you yet found another?.

We have not seriously looked yet. When we sell our bungalow we will look for another. We will then have a better idea of the scope of our finances. We can move into rented or even a motor home if necessary.and shove things into store.

One thing I missed out of the above rigmarole was the bit about all the sink and basin outlets being designed for uphill water. I had to drop the one in the kitchen a full brick depth.

edit:- This afternoon's viewers were "no-committal". ....."Oh yes, we do like it, but we have another three to look at."

[Watchful]

Oh dear! I hope your prospective purchasers will be having a full survey done!

The Rayburn brings back poignant memories of our second, large Victorian terraced house, which had a large, solid-fuel boiler It had a mind of its own and we very soon converted to gas.

Speaking of house moves we are, at present, looking around with a view to putting our small terraced on the market. I'm just holding back because of the HIPS and hoping they get squashed in this month's budget. Most of the estate agents want to see the back of them and so do I. From what I've heard, solicitors will not trust the inspections done by hastily-trained inspectors so will still charge for their own searches.

It would be fairer for buyers if the seller supplied an up-to-date survey which would stand until, or if, any changes were made. More costly but, you would not have to pay for one on your next purchase, as it would be supplied by the vendor, so it would even out. Sometimes, you pay for a survey on a house you fancy and then the deal falls through and you have to start again with another property. Fees paid with no result :(

[Irene]

Yet another fascinating tale - even though it is "sprinkled and awash" with a fiar amount of plumbing problems for you to overcome.

You certainly plumb the depths - I wish you well in your endeavour to sell the house. Have you yet found another?.

We have not seriously looked yet. When we sell our bungalow we will look for another. We will then have a better idea of the scope of our finances. We can move into rented or even a motor home if necessary.and shove things into store.

One thing I missed out of the above rigmarole was the bit about all the sink and basin outlets being designed for uphill water. I had to drop the one in the kitchen a full brick depth.

edit:- This afternoon's viewers were "no-committal". ....."Oh yes, we do like it, but we have another three to look at."

btw: Did I mention that I was looking for a bungalow in "Just a yodel away"? :lol:

[catgate]

Oh dear! I hope your prospective purchasers will be having a full survey done!

I think most surveys done are usually just eyewash.

All the problems that we have had would not have been found by a survey..

Everything was built to regulation standards with building inspectors as and when. All the electrical work complied with the IEE regulations.

One of by brother's-in-law was a solicitor and he has much to say on the topic of house surveys and their "general flexibility".

[Watchful]

Oh dear! I hope your prospective purchasers will be having a full survey done!

I think most surveys done are usually just eyewash.

All the problems that we have had would not have been found by a survey..

Everything was built to regulation standards with building inspectors as and when. All the electrical work complied with the IEE regulations.

One of by brother's-in-law was a solicitor and he has much to say on the topic of house surveys and their "general flexibility".

You are probably right there. We got let down by a so-called 'full survey' but the said 'surveyor' coughed up in the end for costly repairs. The point is that these HIPS are compulsory now and are probably just as useless.

Having moved house seven times in the past 40 years I rely on my eyes and nose to suss out a house.

[andsome]

Oh dear! I hope your prospective purchasers will be having a full survey done!

I think most surveys done are usually just eyewash.

All the problems that we have had would not have been found by a survey..

Everything was built to regulation standards with building inspectors as and when. All the electrical work complied with the IEE regulations.

One of by brother's-in-law was a solicitor and he has much to say on the topic of house surveys and their "general flexibility".

You are probably right there. We got let down by a so-called 'full survey' but the said 'surveyor' coughed up in the end for costly repairs. The point is that these HIPS are compulsory now and are probably just as useless.

Having moved house seven times in the past 40 years I rely on my eyes and nose to suss out a house.

Why do people move so frequently? This is our second house, and we moved into it in 1966. We will need to be carried out of here eventually. :D

[Watchful]

There are several reasons for people moving and all of ours were for good reasons. If I'd been lucky enough to have found the perfect house in the best location the first time, then perhaps I'd still be there, but then perhaps not.

Personally, I like a challenge and new surroundings and can't imagine living in the same house all my life although I know many who do. You and they are lucky to be content. Me, I'm still searching.

[Irene]

There are several reasons for people moving and all of ours were for good reasons. If I'd been lucky enough to have found the perfect house in the best location the first time, then perhaps I'd still be there, but then perhaps not.

We recently faced a dilemma about moving home.

We recently benefited from a generous return on an investment, and as a result of health considerations, we felt it was maybe a pertinent time to find a bungalow for the rest of our retirement.

We spent a great deal of time searching and viewing prospective properties. Unfortunately, all of the bungalows which attracted us and ticked the boxes of our criterea, were at least £100k above our budget! Our present home is in a superb location. Just one mile from the town centre and open fields and coutryside over the garden fence. Amazingly private, which is unusual in a moderate value property these days. Bus stop around the corner, with a bus service into town every 20 minutes. I only ever need to take my car into town if I have heavy shopping to collect.

We had done some improvements in recent years, but decided to invest in a new kitchen and replacement conservatory - both of which are now virtually completed, thank goodness - plus one or two other refinements.

So, instead of investing all of our good fortune in bricks and mortar, we now have a small surplus with which to enhance our modest retirement income and a little bit more to indulge ourselves during our older age. ;)

[catgate]

Why do people move so frequently? This is our second house, and we moved into it in 1966. We will need to be carried out of here eventually. :D

Do people move frequently.? We have never had a lot of neighbours. How frequently do your neighbours move?

[AlanHo]

Our little lane of 16 houses is a lane of two halves. The even numbered side of the lane are adjacent to the M42 motorway and were compulsory purchased by the Highways Authority in about 1995 when there were plans to widen the motorway. They have been rented out ever since and there is a large turnover in residents.

The 8 houses on my side of the lane have seen two changes in residents since 1996 when I returned from 12 years in the the Middle East to come back to the UK.

[Watchful]

Unfortunately Irene, we did not benefit from an investment, we, like millions of others, lost out :( and our budget is very limited.

[andsome]

Our first house in Birmingham was very tiny, but at least it was our own, and got us out of my mothers house, it is never the same living with someone else. We did not stretch ourselves as many of todays youngsters seem to. A cheap carpet in the lounge and bedroom. Two old dining chairs and an old table given to us. A transistor radio, and definitely no TV. This served us fine while we saved more cash, for what we hope would be our first and last move. Our present home, although not the ideal that we would have chosen had we won the football pools, suits us fine. We have spent a lot on it over the years, and done a lot of work. By some standards it is modest, but most important of all it is a HOME. We see no reason to get involved in all the upheaval of moving, just for the sake of it. We know several people who have moved several times in the same time that we have lived here, each time to something more upmarket and larger. Several have ended up in places much too large for their present needs, and now are looking to downsize, which to us at least makes it all appear to have been a lot of trouble over the years for little or nothing, just a case of keeping up with the Joneses. (We are of course called Jones) :lol: . The cash that these people have been spending all these years has kept us more than comfortable enough, and given us good holidays. This home is a living part of us, and as such is irreplaceable. That is just how we feel, and cannot understand the constant urge that some appear to have to continuously keep moving. It is the same as continuously upgrading equipment for the sake of it. :D

[Watchful]

"...and cannot understand the constant urge that some appear to have to continuously keep moving. It is the same as continuously upgrading equipment for the sake of it. :D "

That's not the case at all andsome. As I said before, there are many reasons, nothing to do with upgrading - not in our case anyway.

You are lucky if you've never had any reason to move.

[catgate]

...and cannot understand the constant urge that some appear to have to continuously keep moving.

There are as many reasons as there are moves.

If a man tries to raise a family of six in a two bedroomed bungalow he will find it difficult. If some one lives in a house with a staircase and has sciatica, arthritis, Peruvian Bonk or Thraddle then a bungalow is needed. If you lived on the top floor of a high rise block and suddenly developed vertigo you might think it not unreasonable to find somewhere on the level.

[artist]

We moved to this lovely area some years ago from a house to a bungalow. It was woefully in need of modernisation. We made a couple of rooms in the loft in that one, one with an en suite.

That bungalow was situated on top of a steep slope. The survey missed a fair few things that weren't apparent until a couple of years on. There was a back roof overhang supported by two large beams both in the throes of dry rot. Also a large crack in the front wall from windowsill down - so not immediately obvious. It turned out that most of the neighbours had had their properties underpinned. I have always been a prone to falling over my own feet and the back garden was extremely hazardous so we decided to move before I killed myself or the house fell down.

The next place was another bungalow in a very quiet road. We did it all up - every where needed extensive cleaning and modernising as most properties on the market had belonged to someone old who had passed on to the next world. We added a large extension and got control of the outside jungle. But - the neighbours, bar one, were so unfriendly! Our immediate neighbour used to peer at us through a knot hole in the fence. There were no large trees, so not many birds. It was a horrible place to live so after 18 months we moved again. Still in the same area.

This bungalow was tiny and agin the decor was circa 1960. More ripping out of walls and cupboards and another rear extension. Up into the loft again - just one room and a loo and basin this time. Nice size garden here - not too huge, suits us as we go away a lot. We have shops, doctor,busses, sea all in a small walking distance. Can't forsee that we'd want to move from here.

So that was 3 moves in about 4 years. Sometimes there are odd reasons for moving..........

My mum had a council house and was on the move constantly - exchanges were easy back then. She just liked to do up somewhere different

[andsome]

You have all missed my point. I mentioned those who move regularly every few years just to get what they believe to be more up market. They usually end up as I said with something far larger than they need, and then have to go through the whole process again to downsize. Of course some people have need to move, this is obvious, but many just make endless moves for the reason stated. :D

[catgate]

Well, there is no accounting for some ways of thinking. There was a departmental "manager" in the company that I was with who had this peculiar theory that it was beneficial to have the largest mortgage that one could afford because of the income tax relief that was gained from it (in those far off days). I could never understand his logic. How it could be beneficial to him to pay the vast amount of interest on a mortgage was , and still is, beyond my comprehension (like so many things). He was with the company about eight years and had three houses in that time, each one bigger than the last. I think he went back to Essex.

[Irene]

Unfortunately Irene, we did not benefit from an investment, we, like millions of others, lost out :( and our budget is very limited.

The funds were from an unexpected inheritance when my brother-in-law passed away suddenly.

We used it to help support our son's business when he was short of cashflow.

Fortunately, his business eventually became very successful and he sold out for a very comfortable sum.

Consequently, we received a nice return on the 'investment', when to be honest we thought that the best we could hope for would be the return of the funds in due course!