Prescription medicines + natural in UK

[Lamb Chop]

Can anyone tell me if you have these generic medicines being loaded onto you? We have and they are not as good as the original drugs that were tried and tested long and hard before being allowed on the market. They say they randomly test these generics but they were originally made for the third world and are cheaper so supposed to save money on the health scheme.

Means now that if you want the original drug you have to pay a levy over and on top of the co payment for seniors - working people have to pay $33.60 an item OAPs and other SFR who earn under 50K single or $80K marrieds get to pay $5 an item.

I read on another forum that OAPs in UK pay nothing for their scripts - lucky although today here many buy natural meds as they are better and have no rotten side effects. Expensive though.

For arthritis which anyone can get if ever played sport - I did hockey and so have bad knees and take Green Lipped Mussel extract fm NZ which is a natural glucosamine available there in Uk called SeaTone. Works a lot better than any other and I have tried them all I reckon :D Creaky knees stiff and painful goodbye

Plus if anyone remembers me going on about hollow heels in shoes made in China these days - well see that a niche market has opened up with inserts of rubber to combat these hollow heels that can damage your heels and give you boney bits growing through the damage. Thanks to greed once more - profit before quality product :(

[Irene]

Hi, Lamb Chop :D

You heard correctly. Anyone over the age of 60 has free prescribed medicine here in England. However, with agreement from the patient, they do change from the brand named drugs. I personally have no problem with that, providing they do the job.

In addition to my prescribed medication, I take Glucosamine Sulphate and Omega 3 Fish Oils, which I obtain HERE.

The prices are incredibly low and I believe that they would ship worldwide.

May be worth a look through for you. ;)

[andsome]

Hi, Lamb Chop :D

You heard correctly. Anyone over the age of 60 has free prescribed medicine here in England. However, with agreement from the patient, they do change from the brand named drugs. I personally have no problem with that, providing they do the job.

In addition to my prescribed medication, I take Glucosamine Sulphate and Omega 3 Fish Oils, which I obtain HERE.

The prices are incredibly low and I believe that they would ship worldwide.

May be worth a look through for you. ;)

Some years ago the local chemist obtained a cheaper supply of a drug that I was on. When I told him that it had little effect he changed back to the proper one. I believe that this company supply abroad, and they offer excellent value. No VAT is charged as the are resident in Guernsey.

Healthspan.

[catgate]

......... hollow heels in shoes made in China these days - well see that a niche market has opened up with inserts of rubber to combat these hollow heels that can damage your heels and give you boney bits growing through the damage. Thanks to greed once more - profit before quality product :(

Well they told me these were for smuggling drugs.

[Lamb Chop]

Pops you cracked me up :D Could well be and did you read that they want to entice all the pharmaceutical drug companies to go manufacture there? Well after a whole batch in a hospital in the USA were found to have no active ingredient in them a couple of years back and that is why they didn't work - duh - made in China - bet they won't get em- well if ethics and moral applied wouldn't but today - when greed is the only factor moving folk at the top - as well as not paying their fair share of tax - cant bank on anything. :(

[Lamb Chop]

Irene & ansome - thanks for that I can get cheaper medicines here on line too. Fish Oil 400 caps for $12.99 - exchange in around 47p so maybe you can work it out - I can never remember which way it goes I will pass the links onto my sister who lives near The Queen's Castle recently repaired.

I asked because I had a bad experience with getting a script filled. I wont take on generics as had on anti biotic and it wasn't effective so gave them the flick and pay the extra levy.

Pulled a muscle in my leg and can hack it during the day but when you lie down it throbs and you cant find a way to lie to sleep so have to take Panadeine Forte which has 30mg of codeine - nothing else strong enough. Opened my new script - had got a few filled and took it out to find the blooming thing wasn't what was on the script at all but a generic - 10pm at night so took 1 - usually enough - by 10.30 was fed up with tossing and turning took 2nd one - by 11.15 was up and back in the lounge trying to sleep sitting up as neither worked at all,

I felt so let down, and had to wait out 4 hours until I could take 2 Panadeines with only 8mg of codeine but they worked well enough to go back to bed and get some sleep but aware of the pain.

Gave the chemist a good serve next day and got them changed as I had told the girl - no I do not want the cheaper one - I want what the doctor ordered and it is marked with a x in no brand substituted.

So I did wonder if the UK government was as cheap as to take on third world meds for its people too - seems like it has.

What gets me is that these generic companies just pick up the formula and do not have to pay the R&D like the original drug manufacturer did - so can produce them a lot cheaper just production costs but do they sell them to the government cheaper - NO - price them just under thr original. They just make a fat profit.

What can you do about it - I wrote to our TGA who authorise the drugs to be sold here with batch number etc but will anything happen. Doubt it. Although some time back they did shut down a factory here who had had a good reputation and were only subject to random checks B) but bad outcome for a patient and they found the bloke running it - was cutting corners to save costs. Had to give it back to get the real stuff and we have a shortage of Doctors here takes up to 3 weeks to get in but will give a script next day - couldn't wait out another night. Real stuff works a treat.

Moral is you only get issued with one body - so look after it and don't feed it generics of any kind as no guarantee with branded stuff these days but your chances are better than relying on something made in down town back streets of wherever.

OOPs sorry Catgate - called you pops.

[-pops-]

I'll put my penn'orth in.

Amongst the many medicaments I take is Diclofenac for my arthritis. Originally I had this under the brand name Voltarol. About a year ago the script was changed to Volsaid which claimed to be the same thing but by a different manufacturer. They didn't work. Lucky I had my son around to supply me with some more of the originals. He also had the tablets analysed and found that they did contain the correct drug in the correct amount.

What this illustrates, and is well known but frequently ignored, is that the manufacture plays an important role in the efficacy of a drug e.g. what the exipients are, how much a tablet is compressed - which dictates its release rate (this is especially important in sustained release products which Voltarol are) and so on.

To state that generics are the same as, or as good as, branded products is a myth - even if they do ostensibly contain the same components.

All in the name of the great god - Profit.

[Lamb Chop]

Thanks Pops for confirming what I suspected. Never had the opportunity get anything tested. I suspect that the so called Forte had very little if any codeine in them - but as you say could have but the fillers etc made them not work for me.

In the night alone and in pain - one does not wish nice things for the government for shoving these onto us willy nilly or pay extra on top of the co payment as pensioner pays anyway - $7.13 instead of $5 and I willingly pay it - shouldn't have to. I will pull every single item out of the bag next time to make sure they are not sneaking in their rotten generics.

Because of course a scandal here in 2006 was that the pharmacists were being charged less by the generic companies but then on charging the government the full agreed price so rorting the system and the government let them get away with it by reducing their illegal take by 12.1/2% a year until 2012 when they would be given 1 billion in compensation for not stealing money - excuse not given but I reckon couldn't lock up all the pharmacists who would distribute the meds. Mind you we have come a long way from when a chemist mixed up the drug in his own shop so why do we need all these degrees anyway to just fill out a prescription?

BTW have you got pharmacies in your supermarkets yet? Here a battle to try to get them - ongoing.

They are also using them in all our hospitals even private ones these days. Not that these are recommended even the Hospital Commissioner said one night on telly do not go into hospital unless you are dying because you could be by the time you leave - if you are lucky enough to be in a position to leave.

As you say Profit.

Profit and greed are King.

[Robbers Dog]

I have used Dicofenac for a number of years, and I never found any difference when they was changed to a generic brand.

[Lamb Chop]

Funnily enough found this in today's online paper - the generic issue is hotting up one way of another - of course there will always be people who say they work.

It is the money being made by the pharmacists over and above their negotiated prescribing fee that influences them to push generics in this country - it is two years since the scandal broke so the press is now catching up with it - well they did break it in December 06 right when people were into Christmas.

Time to put pharmacists under the microscope

THURSDAY, 8 JANUARY 2009

Dr David Monash, a rural GP in Victoria, writes:

In the heart of Sydney, six men in suits meet. Three of the men are from Big Pharma and three are from a large pharmaceutical chain in Australia. The subject of their discussions is the price for which the company will sell their generic medication to the chain.

As the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme price paid to the pharmacies is set by the Government, every cent they can obtain the drug for below this price is money in the pockets of the pharmacists. They find it easier to negotiate a "good" price with more pharmacies in their group. This advantage has led to the rapid spread of pharmacy chains across Australia.

But why does this matter? Doctors determine the medications we receive don’t they? That’s where all the attention is focused, with clear codes of conduct, etc. This is true: the doctors choose the medication but they do not choose the BRAND of medication. Even if a doctor writes a prescription for a generic the pharmacist determines which brand the patient receives unless the patient insists on receiving the brand the doctor prescribed.

The pharmacist has another bargaining chip to play in their negotiation over price -- the promise to limit the pharmacies in the chain from dispensing other brands, including generics, over a set period. They have found in the past that the line "I don’t have that brand but can get it in for you in three days" works well to direct most patients to the brand of generic they wish to sell.

There is no media or any other scrutiny and no code of conduct for such negotiations. Such is the power of the Pharmacy Guild, most people aren’t even aware this process occurs.

In another part of Sydney, 120 doctors are ushered into a ballroom where a $100 per head dinner takes place. The guest speaker has been chosen and briefed by the host -- Big Pharma -- but is an expert in his/her field and answers questions from a knowledgeable audience.

Such events occur all over the country. In some regions the only contact the local doctors have with such specialists is via this method. The doctors all leave, having received entertainment valued at less than 0.0005% of their gross income: hardly sufficient to influence their prescribing pattern. The media cover the event and it is reported and scrutinised carefully by the watch dog established to enforce the code that covers such events. Total cost: less than $150,000.

There are 4200 pharmacists in Australia, with over 167 million prescriptions issued on the PBS in 2006-2007. One dollar saved on each script via discounted generics puts close to $40,000 in each of their pockets per year.

Does this arrangement receive scrutiny? Why should the pharmacist choose the specific generic the patient receives? Why does the Federal Government via the national prescribing service (NPS) advertise for people to choose generic medicines when all the financial benefit for doing so flows into the pocket of the pharmacists and not the people?

Does the supply of generic medication, a different size and shaped tablet, each month, cause patient confusion and medication error? With the impending negotiations in relation to the next pharmacy agreement, perhaps this situation can and should be corrected.

www.crikey.com.au

More likely doctor, in my personal experience, the actual generic is just not as affective as the original drug which underwent the trials and got approved because only the active ingredient has to be the same so the efficacy of the drug is under question.

[doug]

But you can't do better than a dose of Lilly The Pinks Medicinal Compound