What is this for...........?

[AlanHo]

Whilst touring the Yorkshire dales recently we noticed lots of stone buildings with courses of stones in the side and ends of the walls that projected from the stonework.

I am curious what it is done for.

Sample piccie

[Gandalph]

They appear to be a type of Lintel, although for what purpose I don't know. They could be just for a decorative purpose. Had my father been alive today I could have told you straight away as he was a Master Stone Mason. No doubt someone will come along with an explanation. :D

[Hb_Kai]

Extra balance in the stonework?

[catgate]

I think they might be "throughs".

"What is a through?"

Well, dry stone walling is built up with two outer layer,each constructed from stones with a good face i.e.right size and shape for the location and with one comparativly smooth face slightly larger than the others (however many there may be) facing "out", The middle is "filled" with odds and ends as the wall is built. layer by layer. These fillings do two things. Firstly they are used to prop up the inner ends of the face stones, so as to give the wall face the required angle of inward lean, and secondly they fill the gaps in between the inner and outer leaves of the wall to give shelter from the wild weather ( to sheep and passing Alan Hos.)

The reason for the inward lean is to persuade the wall to remain upright , so it is advisable to get the lean the same at both sides, and to do this large wooden templates are used (particularly at walling competitions). However, to help this stability even more "throughs" are put in as frequently as the supply of suitably long stones will allow. These are put in in a fairly random manner as the wall grows. A "good waller" is said never to put a stone down once he has picked it up, meaning there will be a place somewhere for it if only it can be found.

In the case of the barns their walls must not have the stabilising lean and also they must be more stable than the field walls. It is not going to cause mayhem if a length of field wall gives way, but a barn, such as shown will contain cattle and mighty would be the wailing if a barn wall gave way. So they need better stone and lots of throughs.

What this pictures seems to show is that the throughs here have been put in as a almost complete course. This makes sense as it will help in allowing a pertial fresh start to the wall above. The coursing can get badly out of line after a while.

I have seen these jutting out bits hundreds of times and pondered on them. The rest of the wall is so neat and it did not fit in with my vision of the old farmer building a barn to be proud of. But the way this modern farmer has filled in the forking hole door in the gable end shows how much pride some of take in their buildings. So I may have been giving credit where it was not due.

The reaso for the barn walls not having to lean (taper) is due to the fact that the hay settles after being forked in through that door and if the walls tapered it would not be able to settle properly and would try to push he walls outward in addition to not keeping as well.

[AlanHo]

Thank you kind sir for that wonderful treatise. My curiosity is well satisfied.

[rong]

So why do they need to protrude?

[catgate]

Another interesting thing about these barns is how they seem to be scattered about the countryside like horseshit in a field. They are every where.

We were on the motor bike at the top end of Swaledale one day when I was I first noticed that almost every field had one in it. It puzzled my why did they had to have so many and so far away from the farm?

Then after a few more trips round the dales and a few more observations, and thoughts, it became apparent why they were like this.

In the days that these barns were built they had no internal combustion engines, All the hay making was done by and by hand, with a little help from horse power. So it would make sense to keep the hay in the field where it was grown and harvested and bring the cattle to it to eat it on the spot during the winter.

The barns usually consisted of a place at ground floor level where half a dozen or so cattle could be tied uo in stalls with provision at the head end of the stall for hay to be fed down from the above them.

During the summer the cattle would be in some pasture near the farm, and the hay in the meadows would be cut by scythe, and after being turned and dried, would be swept to the barn by a horse drawn sweep device, It would then be fed through the forking hole and the barn would be filled, leaving just space to get the cattle in and out in winter, usually by a small door.

The cattle would in due course be wintered therein and the farmer would trudge up from the farm, morning and evening (come rain, snow, hail or high water), with a milk kit on his back. He would milk them, turn them out to the well, stream. trough or whatever to drink and then, after getting them back in and tied up, would drop them some hay down from up above and trudge back to base, or onto the next barn, Usually whilst they were out watering, the farmer would clean out the daily quota of dung. There was often a neatly made shovelling hole in the wall similar to the forking hole above.

Most of the milk would be made into butter or cheese for home consumption or to be taken down the valley next market day.

[catgate]

So why do they need to protrude?

My best guess is that they were not bothered too much about appearance,.and as long as there was no protrusion on the inside to interfere with the hay, the outside did not matter too much. There was also the question of the nature of the stone and its amenability to being shaped/cut without the help of a Stihl saw. How near do you go to chipping it to the right length without risking spoiling the stone for the purpose for which you want it? No one in those day had a "putting on "hammer.

There are some barns, up near the edge of the high moors, which used to be thatched with heather/ling. On some of these barns you can still see the rows of projecting stone, about two feet below the top of the wall, to which the ropes holding down the net were attached. These stones were more evenly spaced out that the throughs.

[rong]

I think there must be a reason, I have worked in Wales and rebuilt stone walls and they all had soothe sides apart from on occasions they would have the same thing I was told as a stile, obviously not in this case. there is no building reason for having the protrusions as I can't remembering seeing them anywhere else.

[catgate]

I think there must be a reason, I have worked in Wales and rebuilt stone walls and they all had soothe sides apart from on occasions they would have the same thing I was told as a stile, obviously not in this case. there is no building reason for having the protrusions as I can't remembering seeing them anywhere else.

I used to think that there was some logical reason, but I have come round to thinking it is matter of convenience. If the positioning of these things was consistant from one barn to another then one could think that there was some sort of utility in them, but as far as I have been able to tell thay seem to be variable even in barns quite near to each other.

I think that the type of stone available also has a bearing on the matter. The stone in the limestone areas is much less amenable to precise working than that in the sedimentary sandstone areas. The granite areas are different again.

[Gandalph]

I still think they are ties.

This is the type of tie I was thinking about. It helps to distribute the weight of the stone above and stops it from buckling.

[catgate]

In the dales ties = throughs, apart, that is, from round the neck. in that case those around the neck are often thighs.

[Gandalph]

In the dales ties = throughs, apart, that is, from round the neck. in that case those around the neck are often thighs.

'Er inbed isn't that acrobatic these day's catgate. :lol:

[artist]

In the dales ties = throughs, apart, that is, from round the neck. in that case those around the neck are often thighs.

'Er inbed isn't that acrobatic these day's catgate. :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[artist]

This has been very interesting - I have many pics of barn-type building in Yorkshire - often wondered why they are, mostly, a long way from the actual farm. I'm not convinced that cows and sheep are bright enough to get in to a small barn out of the weather.

The first time I went 'Up North' I was fascinated with the walls - so different from the hedges I was used to in the southern counties.

[Gandalph]

This has been very interesting - I have many pics of barn-type building in Yorkshire - often wondered why they are, mostly, a long way from the actual farm. I'm not convinced that cows and sheep are bright enough to get in to a small barn out of the weather.

The first time I went 'Up North' I was fascinated with the walls - so different from the hedges I was used to in the southern counties.

Wonderful news Artist. We have a tradition of building with bricks and Stones up here. :lol:

Would you mind terribly moving that post of mine (posted at 23:50 last night) to it's proper place. Don't ask me how it landed here, I haven't a clue.

[rong]

This has been very interesting - I have many pics of barn-type building in Yorkshire - often wondered why they are, mostly, a long way from the actual farm. I'm not convinced that cows and sheep are bright enough to get in to a small barn out of the weather.

The first time I went 'Up North' I was fascinated with the walls - so different from the hedges I was used to in the southern counties.

This is why, it's because they are lazy up north

The Dales field barn or laithe is unusual in that it is sited well away from the main farm buildings. Instead these barns are found in hay meadows and were used to store the hay from their surrounding fields over winter. Cattle were housed in a shippon on the lower floor in stalls and fed with this hay. Their muck was spread on the hay meadows to feed the next crop of hay. The siting of the barn meant that heavy materials such as hay and muck never had to be carried very far from where they were needed.

[catgate]

I'm not convinced that cows and sheep are bright enough to get in to a small barn out of the weather

They are bright enough to take advantage of whatever cover there is in bad weather.

Most of the traditional northern sheep are hardy enough to stay outside all year round but they do shelter from the worst of it if they can. This is often their downfall in really heavy drifting snow, because the snow drifts into the lea of the walls. In so doing it will cover the sheep. Then it is time for the farmer and his dog to go and find them and dig then out before it is too late.

The first time I went' Up North' I was fascinated with the walls - so different from the hedges I was used to in the southern counties.

The next time you are "up north" it is worth going up onto the hill side above a village and looking at the pattern made by the field walls.

At the time of the land being"Enclosed" they needed something with which to enclose it. It just so happened that the dales, having been gouged out by the glaciers were not without a lot of stone. Pieces of it were everywhere, dropped by the glaciers as they moved and as the melted. So clearing the land of stones gave the farmers more space for grass to grow and also lots of stuff to use to build walls to keep the live stock from wandering off..

It is interesting to Google the Map around Malham and look at the aerial view of the wall patterns. You can see but their shape that the field structure was built up around the village by enclosing one field by building four walls and then adding another three walls to those walls to produce anther field . Then another and then another and some times doing it by building only two. A bit like a jigsaw puzzle they all interlock.

[artist]

I looked at the satellite map around Malham - I see what you mean.

Have a look around Salisbury too - very pretty patchwork.....

[catgate]

I looked at the satellite map around Malham - I see what you mean.

Have a look around Salisbury too - very pretty patchwork.....

Very pretty. looks like an old quilt.

I suppose it must be the same where ever old settlements existed when the enclosures started.

The wallers that I admire were the old chaps who used to build walls up the sides of the steep fells and mountains, like Peny Ghent and Ingleborough. The hill sides were sometimes at an angle of 45 degrees but they still had to have each course horizontal. Very skilled chaps.All the more so when you actually see the ridiculous limestone "cobbles" which were the only material they had to use..