My qualm about how posts are answered

[Zfactor]

Maybe its just me but I notice that 90% of the time when somebody posts a question about how to fix/use/obtain a program, at least 2 people chime in with stuff that does not help at all. And by that I mean they say "oh no you should get Firefox," or "you should get thunderbird, and use its anti spam instead of searching for an antispam for your Outlook Express," or something along those lines.

Its like nobobody can accept the fact that not everybody likes the stuff they do. Like before I posted about if anybody knew a free anti-virus and I mentioned that my friend was waiting to get Norton's Anti-Virus, then all of the sudden I have three people posting about how they dont like Nortons. How is this going to help me in the least bit? I didnt ask for advice about whether or not my friend should get Norton's Anti-Virus. I got at least 5 good responses that gave me links and explained things, and that is good. The rest is just post spam, and its entirely unnecessary since it has nothing to do with the question. Post count does not equal quality.

Also, every time somebody asks about IE, somebody says "forget IE, you need to get firefox." This is just really freaking annoying. I used to use IE because I did not like firefox (before version 1.0 came out), and every time I would go ask a question in a diff. forum, ppl would say "forget it, get firefox." That does not help me at all, it has nothing to do with my problem and provides no solution. The same thing happens here. Its like you can't get a question answered without the peanut gallery chiming in about how what you are using is insufficient or some crap like that.

Also the final thing that pisses me off is how Linux users always post in a thread where somebody has a windows problem, telling them to just get linux... For one, this is WINDOWSFORUM.ORG, not OperatingSystemForum.org. Dont get me wrong, There is no problem in making a thread with linux resources and telliing people to try it out; in fact that is very useful for anybody who is using windows who wants to try it out. But when somebody asks a question about a windows problem, telling them to get linux is not a useful answer; in my opinion it is very very annoying. When I see a new post I expect to read some kind of solution or a link to where I might find one, not a link to getting a linux boot disk or something like that.

If nobody else sees this as a problem then I guess I am in the wrong technical forum.

[scuzzman]

While I understand where you're coming from, there are a few things I'd like to point out...

Maybe its just me but I notice that 90% of the time when somebody posts a question about how to fix/use/obtain a program, at least 2 people chime in with stuff that does not help at all. And by that I mean they say "oh no you should get Firefox," or "you should get thunderbird, and use its anti spam instead of searching for an antispam for your Outlook Express," or something along those lines.

I'll be the first to admit, I'm a FF advocate, and have reccomended on multiple occasions to give FF a shot. I also ask a lot "does this happen with all browsers or just IE," and there are reasons behind that. If it happens just on IE, then it's an IE problem and needs to be troubleshot that way (invalid reg keys, etc). If it happens with IE and FF, then it's an OS problem (hosts file redirect, problems with TCP/IP stack, etc), and requires completely different troubleshooting.

Also - usualyy when there's a "try FF" in there, at least by me, it is to serve as a temp solution until we can get IE fixed.

Its like nobobody can accept the fact that not everybody likes the stuff they do. Like before I posted about if anybody knew a free anti-virus and I mentioned that my friend was waiting to get Norton's Anti-Virus, then all of the sudden I have three people posting about how they dont like Nortons. How is this going to help me in the least bit? I didnt ask for advice about whether or not my friend should get Norton's Anti-Virus. I got at least 5 good responses that gave me links and explained things, and that is good. The rest is just post spam, and its entirely unnecessary since it has nothing to do with the question. Post count does not equal quality.

This was simply additional information, indicating that there were additional options. And, as you said, you did get valid responses. If you don't like the way a thread is turning out, place "RESOLVED" in the title and close it. This forum is growing every day. While there are more options, people are going to have different opinions and if they wish, they can voice them. There's nothing that can be done to stop it, nor should there be. If someone googling for "antivirus programs" happens to come across that thread, they're going to get arguments for and against a majority of popular solutions, which in effect is more effective at what is the intended goal of this site: to make people's lives more enjoyable and worry-free through computers.

Also the final thing that pisses me off is how Linux users always post in a thread where somebody has a windows problem, telling them to just get linux... For one, this is WINDOWSFORUM.ORG, not OperatingSystemForum.org. Dont get me wrong, There is no problem in making a thread with linux resources and telliing people to try it out; in fact that is very useful for anybody who is using windows who wants to try it out. But when somebody asks a question about a windows problem, telling them to get linux is not a useful answer; in my opinion it is very very annoying. When I see a new post I expect to read some kind of solution or a link to where I might find one, not a link to getting a linux boot disk or something like that.

I see that happening very little here. Now, over at LQ, yes, when someone asks a Windows question, they're likely to get "Get Linux" quite a bit. But, when someone asks "I need a bootable CD with which I can " I reccomend Knoppix or something of the sort. Not because I want to convert them to Linux, but because it's the best utility for the job. My apologies if a Linux suggestion seems out of place, but a majority of the people here see Linux and Windows as PC-OS brethren, and fully recognize that there are some things that Linux does better than Windows, and unfortunately, bottable CD's are topping that list.

[nellie2]

I can see your point Zfactor. I've had a look at your AV thread and it seems ok to me. Yes there are a few 'opinions' there....... but you are always going to get opinions.

We try to encourage a friendly atmosphere here....... and so you will always get a bit of a debate going on some subjects. The thing to do is to pull out the information that you need and just ignore the other stuff!

I would hope, that on the whole you find this forum informative and a pleasant place to spend a bit of time. And just for the record, I don't see your opinion as a problem at all. All feedback is welcome.

Nel

[deuces wild]

If you are referring to the anti virus program thread you started.....you asked for opinions. Folks expressed opinions on what they thought was best and what they did not like.

You asked for opinions...opinions were offered.

I guess I really don't get your point. :blink:

If you want everyone to agree with you then don't ask for opinions. :D

I do not mean to offend you with this reply....I am just being blunt and honest. It is also my opinion. :P :flowers:

[Damo]

I like the irony Zfactor!!! Your moaning about people pushing their opinions regarding certain applications, yet your the one who has a logo in there signature with 'GET FIREFOX' on it???

Maybe I don't want to 'get firefox' and maybe I get 'pissed off' (your words) with people telling me what to get!

I've not seen many posts of yours but the few that I have seen are negative and do nothing to serve any purpose!

If nobody else sees this as a problem then I guess I am in the wrong technical forum

Hey you said it!!! Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!!

I'm sick of people p***y footing about, being nicely nice to people all the time, maybe it's because I hardly come here anymore, but some people just need telling!

[-pops-]

If I remember correctly, your post about antivirus asked for free versions of anti-virus software.

Now, Norton is not normally free so you were offered alternatives, as you requested, and some opinions, which you also asked for.

I am sure all the replies were offered with the best intentions and just because you may have misunderstood this is hardly an excuse for a blanket condemnation of Windows Forum.

Windows Forum has become a very successful and well respected place for people with computer queries to come. Some stay after their problem has been solved and make positive contributions, others make one post and disappear back into cyberspace and some even stay on and attempt to disrupt the running of an established forum format. An extension of that third category are those that, disillusioned with the status quo, go off and start their own forum which, of course, everyone is entitled to do. Not many of these last more than a few weeks or, at best, a few months. This shows, I think, that Windows Forum has got things pretty much right.

[andsome]

As I have stated before, I tried Firefox and uninstalled it. I tried McAffee and Command AV and uninstalled them. I am an IE and OE fan and a great fan of Symantec. I always relish a debate, and am willing to argue my corner. The one point that I will agree with however, is that far too often in my opinion the first answer to an IE or OE question is " get Firefox", and I agree that this does not help with the original problem. It is possible that trying to use Firefox whilst at the same time trying to fix the original problem could actually cause more trouble. By far, the vast majority of people who use IE and OE do so without any problems at all, so there is obviously something on that computer that has occurred that needs putting right. Like wise if someone who is a fan of Firefox suddenly gets a problem after a long period of satisfaction, then again something needs putting right, and if that person prefers Firefox, then to uninstall it and go back to IE is not the answer. Don't however let us stifle debate, we all like to make our point, and most threads do tend to deviate, this is human nature. What I did take exception to a couple of days ago was to someone claiming twice in a post that users of IE and OE were ignorant, I asked the person concerned to withdraw that statement, but as yet this to my knowledge has not happened.

[nellie2]

ooops, well I did say everyone has an opinion. I would also like to say that Zfactor has made a welcome contribution to the forum and I hope he continues to do so.

His guide on setting up CCleaner being one such contribution see here.

I'll just say this, we are all entitled to get a little peed off at times, we are all entitled to have our say, but lets not get personal about it.

[Zfactor]

I am not just talking about my AV post, I simply used it as a small example where people respond with things that don't help at all. Like I said, I got many good responses and that is good. However I did not ask anybody if Norton's AV is a good program, and replying to tell me what you think about it is of no use. Now I'll have to reply to some of the posts here because people seem to misunderstand me entirely.

I like the irony Zfactor!!! Your moaning about people pushing their opinions regarding certain applications, yet your the one who has a logo in there signature with 'GET FIREFOX' on it???

First of all, if it were anything it would be hipocracy. The first thing you should do before you try to tell somebody off is to make sure you have your words in order. But notice that I said when people REPLY to help questions by saying "forget IE, get Firefox." You would do yourself well to check to see that I have not once told somebody to get FireFox in a thread asking about an IE problem. If I do not know the answer I shut my mouth, I don't say "get firefox instead." I am a FireFox fan and if somebody clicks the links in my signatures and likes it then kudos to them. But I never offer getting FireFox as a solution to a question. If you can find one where I did then I guess I am in fault there and I would be well suited to follow my own words, but I am careful not to as much as I can.

I've not seen many posts of yours but the few that I have seen are negative and do nothing to serve any purpose!

Yes, it is very clear you have seen none of my posts, or else you would not have replied in this fashion. I only have 100 posts, and if they are in the technical forums it is only me offering what little advice I can give. If it is the opinion forum, then I am sounding off my opinion, and if you do not agree that is your problem not mine.

I'm sick of people p***y footing about, being nicely nice to people all the time, maybe it's because I hardly come here anymore, but some people just need telling!

Yes, heaven forbid that anybody treat somebody with respect or give them the courtesy that they deserve. I'm certainly surprised that fire has not rained down from the hevens on us for doing so.

If I remember correctly, your post about antivirus asked for free versions of anti-virus software.

Now, Norton is not normally free so you were offered alternatives, as you requested, and some opinions, which you also asked for.

I am sure all the replies were offered with the best intentions and just because you may have misunderstood this is hardly an excuse for a blanket condemnation of Windows Forum.

I am not simply referring to one post. If I was then I would just be an a**hole. I have seen it time and time again in this forum where 2 or 3 people can't resist chiming in and telling people that a solution to their trouble is getting a different program. This is not helpful in the least bit. You can imagine how frustrated people get when stuff goes wrong for seemingly no reason, and it is even more frustrating to see replies to your thread and go in hopeing for help but all you got were replies saying "bah, forget that program, get this or that instead."

I guess I really don't get your point. blink.gif

If you want everyone to agree with you then don't ask for opinions. biggrin.gif

I asked for opinions about which free AV my friend should get while he waits to get Nortons. I didn't ask if Norton's AV is a good app. Like I said in that thread I got 5 or 6 good answers that lead me to free AV that those people thought were good. But some people posted just to complain about Norton's AV or to say it sucks... How exactly this is supposed to be helpful I don't know...

It seems alot of the poeple who took offense to this are the ones who should not have. There is a difference between offering a solution and then saying as an aside "you should try this or that," and simply saying "screw that program, use this." All I am saying is that the 2-3 people per thread who always post "forget this problem, just solve it by getting another program" are not helping anybody. Its also annoying to think you have an answer to your problem and then you find out it was just some person advertising a program you dont want. I don't claim to be some kind of windows genius, and that is why I don't answer questions to which I have no valid answers. I didnt say that windowsforum.org is a crap forum and that you should all be ashamed of it, I simply said that I find it pointless for people to post in help threads to just say "forget your problems and get another program." From the replies you would think I cussed you all out and saind windowsforum.org is the worst, which is the opposite of my actual opinion of windowsforum.org because I have found many a helpful person here. I don't think its unreasonable for me to say that people posting "get another program" as if they were helping is pointless. Especially since some people's threads go unanswered except for these kinds of posts (occasionally) because somebody thinks that the person is being helped so they move on to the next thread.

What is kind of funny is the people who took this personal would only do so if they know for a fact that they did this sort of thing before. It just so happens that most of you who do do this from time to time are the ones offering the most help, and then saying as an aside to try something else. Like I said there is a difference between the fact that you offer help and THEN suggest a different application, and the others who simply post to say "try this app instead," while offering no help at all.

[djohn]

I think the whole thread needs to be read along with the original one to understand the point Zfactor is trying to put across. I see your point Zfactor. You asked for advice on a free anti-virus for temporary use, not an opinion on Norton, a product that your friend has his heart set on buying.

I've only tried Norton once, three years back and couldn't get on with it, or the way it slowed my system down but many people do use it and prefer it to any other product.

You did have a few pointers to free applications to pass on to your friend while he waits for his father to purchase Norton for him. Other members just pointed out that there were excellent free products to use and these recommendations were meant to be helpful, not a criticism of your friends choice.

Try not to take it as a personal affront to yourself, they were meant to help you even though you did not ask for an appraisal of Nortons products. :)

[Sir T Fireball]

think the whole thread needs to be read along with the original one to understand the point Zfactor is trying to put across. I see your point Zfactor. You asked for advice on a free anti-virus for temporary use, not an opinion on Norton, a product that your friend has his heart set on buying.

Well put Djohn. I think it's called 'going off topic' and usually is frowned upon (is when I do it isn't it pops? :P ). This chap is making a valid point and some folk are taking an undue, overly aggressive stance IMO.

It seems to me that this threads instigator has put his point clearly and politely, yet has been treated as an uppity outsider who has the audacity to voice an opinion.

[Damo]

Z,

I would like to apologise for the tone of my post yesterday, I was having the day from hell and just snapped.

I still don't agree with some of the stuff you said, but admit that I was out of order with the way I worded it.

I also know that you have a made a solid contribution to the forum, and retract my statement that you have said only negative things, after viewing your past posts I can see this is not the case.

BTW, I am apologising because i was out of order and NOT because a mod or admin told me I had to!!

Best Regards

Damo

[don't ask]

I understand Zfactor ..... it was like the time I asked something somewhere (can't remember where) about reverting back to Win98SE and 98% of the replies were to tell me to upgrade to XP, when I had already explained that I was getting rid of XP and reverting by choice back to Win98SE.

Water under the bridge for me now but at the time I felt like screaming :wallbash:

[Scarecrow Man]

I have withdrawn my earlier statement. I have now read the thread, and feel I can answer accordingly.

Let me start with what happened to me today.

As some of you know I have my own Computer Repair business whereas I go to a persons house and fix anything from a faulty printer, to a failed hard drive.

Today, I had 2 calls. Both callers said thier system was "slow" and was not running like it used to. They both complained of error messages, viruses and spyware.

Upon arriving at each house, I had noticed that both had norton Anti-virus installed. Both were infected with multiple viruses, and both had a major virus such as blaster, sasser, etc.

I was able to clean them both, and both customers were extatic. In the process I had removed Norton, and installed AVG Free Edition. AVG was able to catch over 20 viruses on one, and several on the other.

I do have a point here...

The point is, I do not like any of Symantec's products. I do however support keeping computer virus and spyware free. Heck, I do it everyday. The only thing is, though it is MUCH better of programs out there, a computer with Norton Anti-virus on it, requires constant attention to security updates, virus definition updates, spyware scans, etc. to keep it running smoothly. Not to mention it must be renewed yearly.

Therefore, I would not recomend Norton Anti-virus to a client, nor could I recomend it to you. I can however recomend AVG as I have had nothing but good experiences with it. And I have used it on systems ranging from 95, 98 to 2000, XP with excellent success.

If you still dont like my comment, please PM me. I have no intentions of making anyone feel bad, angry or upset. And I am sorry if my previous comment has done so.

[Besty]

Sometime comments are irrelevant. But hey you gotta adapt, roll with it lol

[andsome]

Scarecrow Man

No point in anyone getting angry with you, we are all different thank goodness. Personally I have always been a fan of Symantec products. None of the three computers that I have owned have EVER been compromised with a virus. The problem as I see it is that whatever AV program you use it MUST be kept up to date, it can only be as good as the definitions that it has loaded. From what I hear, AVG does not update as often as Norton. Millions of people are happy with this product, otherwise they would be out of business by now. Long live freedom of choice, and debate I say. At this link you can do a comparison of different programs. Grisoft AVG achieved 7 passes and 20 failures, Symantec Norton achieved 27 passes and 6 failures.

Virus bulletin

[Besty]

Scarecrow Man

No point in anyone getting angry with you, we are all different thank goodness.  Personally I have always been a fan of Symantec products.  None of the three computers that I have owned have EVER been compromised with a virus.  The problem as I see it is that whatever AV program you use it MUST be kept up to date, it can only be as good as the definitions that it has loaded.  From what I hear, AVG does not update as often as Norton.  Millions of people are happy with this product, otherwise they would be out of business by now.  Long live freedom of choice, and debate I say.  At this link you can do a comparison of different programs.  Grisoft AVG achieved 7 passes and 20 failures, Symantec Norton achieved 27 passes and 6 failures.

Virus bulletin

Is this not completely irrelevant to the whole point of the topic? :blink: :blink:

[andsome]

Scarecrow Man

No point in anyone getting angry with you, we are all different thank goodness.  Personally I have always been a fan of Symantec products.  None of the three computers that I have owned have EVER been compromised with a virus.  The problem as I see it is that whatever AV program you use it MUST be kept up to date, it can only be as good as the definitions that it has loaded.  From what I hear, AVG does not update as often as Norton.  Millions of people are happy with this product, otherwise they would be out of business by now.  Long live freedom of choice, and debate I say.  At this link you can do a comparison of different programs.  Grisoft AVG achieved 7 passes and 20 failures, Symantec Norton achieved 27 passes and 6 failures.

Virus bulletin

Is this not completely irrelevant to the whole point of the topic? :blink: :blink:

The whole thread got off topic well before this post of mine. Threads frequently do.

[Besty]

yes but that was talking about software when the thread was talking about something completely different. It just goes to show lol

[-pops-]

The thread that this one mainly refers to has been fundamentally edited by its writer since it was first posted and an important sentence removed. This makes it appear somewhat different and off topic to what it was originally where most of the replies were, in the original context, on topic and highly relevant to what was requested.

The part that was removed was something to the effect of "I would like your opinions".

[Scarecrow Man]

yes but that was talking about software when the thread was talking about something completely different.  It just goes to show lol

I can clarify.

I made a rude comment to ZFactor. I felt bad about it, so I removed my comment, and posted one that was more constructive and explained a bit more about my point of view.

[Scarecrow Man]

Scarecrow Man

No point in anyone getting angry with you, we are all different thank goodness.  Personally I have always been a fan of Symantec products.  None of the three computers that I have owned have EVER been compromised with a virus.  The problem as I see it is that whatever AV program you use it MUST be kept up to date, it can only be as good as the definitions that it has loaded.  From what I hear, AVG does not update as often as Norton.  Millions of people are happy with this product, otherwise they would be out of business by now.  Long live freedom of choice, and debate I say.  At this link you can do a comparison of different programs.  Grisoft AVG achieved 7 passes and 20 failures, Symantec Norton achieved 27 passes and 6 failures.

Virus bulletin

I do agree andsome. Norton products are a good anti-virus solution. However, I do not use them, as I have had nothing but bad experiences. I believe they make good products, and I often use thier virus removal tools, such as blaster and sasser removal tools. I just feel there are many excellent alteratives, that should be considered.