Do you buy 'Fair Trade tea and coffee?

[andsome]

We always do, because the workers in the extremely poor countries that supply tea and coffee, are GUARANTEED a fair wage for their labour, or a fair price for their goods. Money is ploughed back into educating the people to provide better quality and quantity, and it cuts out the multi national companies who get rich on the backs of the small producer or worker.

[-pops-]

Have to qualify my "yes" reply slightly because we don't take coffee. BUT, we do drink a lot of cocoa of which we buy Black and Green's Organic Fair Trade brand.

You may think drinking cocoa, other than drinking chocolate at bedtime, is somewhat odd but, some may know that I can't tolerate milk so, a cocoa drink made with water (just a teaspoonful per large cup/mug) is very pleasant, with plenty of "body" - almost like having it made with milk. Almost calorie free as well. There is a tiny amount of fat from the cocoa bean but, very little.

[Sir Radfordin]

Yes but only sometimes. Personally I don't the fair trade coffee tastes 'that nice' so tend not to buy it. I don't have a problem with paying a fair price for something but don't agree with paying more for something I don't think tastes as good.

[-pops-]

With the cocoa, the B&G one has a much better flavour than Cadbury's (which is almost the only other available - and not Fair Trade)

[Hurdy]

Always.

[pwp]

i don't feel i should supply them with the money to buy the gun that they want to

shoot me with.

[andsome]

i don't feel i should supply them with the money to buy the gun that they want to

shoot me with.

If you saw the report on TV the other day showing how fair trade works, those people would NOT have the time to go out shooting people. They work too damned hard tending , gathering and processing their crops. Shooting tends to occur in less industrious areas, amongst less industrious people.

[andsome]

Yes but only sometimes.  Personally I don't the fair trade coffee tastes 'that nice' so tend not to buy it.  I don't have a problem with paying a fair price for something but don't agree with paying more for something I don't think tastes as good.

We found that it's a matter of trying different ones, we prefer the taste of the coffee that we usually buy.

[pwp]

i don't feel i should supply them with the money to buy the gun that they want to

shoot me with.

If you saw the report on TV the other day showing how fair trade works, those people would NOT have the time to go out shooting people. They work too damned hard tending , gathering and processing their crops. Shooting tends to occur in less industrious areas, amongst less industrious people.

yes but if all you dogooders keep paying them more than the going rate they soon will have.

[joysness]

Don't drink much coffee but try to buy Fair Trade when I can.

Have never seen Fair Trade tea here in the US but haven't really looked. I will check it out next time I buy some.

I have seen Black and Green's organic chocolate bars here and I love cocoa, I will check to see if I can get some B & G's next time also :D

[andsome]

yes but if all you dogooders keep paying them more than the going rate they soon will have.

Problem is that they aren't even paid the going rate by the coffee buyers, in many areas the price they get has been forced so low they don't cover expenses, so they start growing something else, in Columbia the alternative is frequently coca leaf. Maybe if we paid them a fair rate instead of pressing them into grinding poverty just so nescafe et al can have a bigger profit they'd feel less like shooting you ?

In most cases, particularly coffee and tea, fair trade products are competitively priced so whatever financial benefit the big corporate buyers eke out of these poor sods doesn't work its way down to us.

I'm no tree hugger and I think that most of the anti globalisation protesters have completely lost the plot. BUT can see no reason why we should not pay a fair price to any farmer, be they Columbian, Kenyan or English.

Excellent post. I do not want to upset anyone on the forum, but really it is a pathetic argument to say that paying people a fair wage, which is still only a fraction of what Western workers would expect, could lead to people being shot. Who the hell do we in the west think we are to exploit people, and then to actually wonder why they get upset and dare to rebel?

[catgate]

Who the hell do we in the west think we are to exploit people, and then to actually wonder why they get upset and dare to rebel?

By "we" are you refering to the likes of Black and Green? You and I are not exploiting anyone. We have no control over the price paid for any commodity item nor the price paid for products made from it.....look at oil!! We, also, are being exploited by B&G et al into thinking that they will be paying the coffee bean growers more for that which they buy and sell as "fair", and continue to pay them the "exploitation" price for the rest. Do you naively think that B&G et. al. are doing this for any other purpose than making more profit? If their motives were in any way altruistic then ALL their products would be "fair" and they would not be making such a virtue of this.

We have for years worn sackcloth and ashes for being part of "the slave trade", but it was started and organised by African tribal leaders, who, apparently, were just as corrupt then as they are now.

[andsome]

Who the hell do we in the west think we are to exploit people, and then to actually wonder why they get upset and dare to rebel?

By "we" are you refering to the likes of Black and Green? You and I are not exploiting anyone. We have no control over the price paid for any commodity item nor the price paid for products made from it.....look at oil!! We, also, are being exploited by B&G et al into thinking that they will be paying the coffee bean growers more for that which they buy and sell as "fair", and continue to pay them the "exploitation" price for the rest. Do you naively think that B&G et. al. are doing this for any other purpose than making more profit? If their motives were in any way altruistic then ALL their products would be "fair" and they would not be making such a virtue of this.

We have for years worn sackcloth and ashes for being part of "the slave trade", but it was started and organised by African tribal leaders, who, apparently, were just as corrupt then as they are now.

I note all that you say, and by we, I mean the proverbial we, that is the country as a whole. I have no illusions that B & G as any other company will make a profit by selling goods. At least however, by selling fair trade products, the grower and processor gets a better price than people employed by the multi national company's. The programme that had quite an interesting article about fair trade was 'Heaven and Earth'. on Sunday morning. 'Er indoors watches it while I mess about on the computer. She called me to watch that particular part of the programme.

[Devanski]

I buy cafedirect but can't vouch for the taste, as it's my good lady who drinks coffee.... she seems to like it :)

I don't buy certain sports shoes/equipment either...

[catgate]

by we, I mean the proverbial we, that is the country as a whole

I am afraid I do not "buy into" this we business. You see,

we have been supporting America in knocking the hell out of Iraq, so that Dubya's mates can make yet another fortune.

We are committed to an open door policy for "asylum seekers", so that out little cherub can be a compassionate world statesman.

We are committed to reducing the poverty of the "third" world, so that our little cherub gets support ( in his scramble for world statesmanhood) from the freeloading dictators who have, and still are, personally gobbling up all the aid which flows anywhere near them, and who, as I write, will be enlarging their strongrooms for the bounty which is now promised.

We believe the bogie man is behind every tree.

We believe in fairies, well we must do ..Westminster is full of them.

[nellie2]

we are just talking about fair trading here, supporting the producer and not the fat cat middle men.

There is nothing wrong with fairies! :huh:

[andsome]

we are just talking about fair trading here, supporting the producer and not the fat cat middle men.

There is nothing wrong with fairies! :huh:

This is the point that I am trying to make. Fair trade is NOT about aid going direct into dictators pockets. It is about paying people a fairer price for their work directly. Even though this price is fairer, it is not high by western standards, but is a whole lot higher when taken alongside the general cost of living in these countries, and enables families to have a far better standard of living. I have found that generally speaking there is little if any difference in the price of fair trade goods when compared with goods produced by the multi nationals. Getting back to the suggestion that paying a fair price for labour and goods would promote shooting people, I would suggest that if a family is treated fairly, there is a lot less chance of them turning to shooting people, and a lot better chance of them spending more money on food and other essentials of life.

Yes Nellie I agree that fairies are quite nice.

[andsome]

Yeah but Brownies and Gnomes suck big time.

Suck what?

[catgate]

It is about paying people a fairer price for their work directly. Even though this price is fairer, it is not high by western standards, but is a whole lot higher when taken alongside the general cost of living in these countries, and enables families to have a far better standard of living.

I think this is very worthy and also desirable, but I have a problem coming to grips with the idea that

generally speaking there is little if any difference in the price of fair trade goods when compared with goods produced by the multi nationals.

. The fact that it is not uncommon for the product not to live up to the claims "on the tin", provided copy material for some well known adverts. Under these circumstances how do we know that the people who are benefiting are those that are supposed to be benefiting

I do not see what incentive exists for (for example) Tesco to pay more for its coffee and then make less profit from it. It is tantamount to expecting me to believe the word of our Fuhrer.

How exactly does the grower get his hands on more remuneration and the seller make the same profit ? Alternatively if the seller is happy to make less profit, why does he not do it to UK producers?

[andsome]

The whole point is that the super market, or wholesaler is NOT buying from a multi national manufacturer, but from a co-operative of small growers and processors. I can assure you that the TV programme that 'er indoors called me to watch looked into the whole scheme very thoroughly, and were very enthusiastic about it.

[andsome]

You seem to have missed the point. Tesco and others have to pay the Nescafe price which includes a huge mark up. The co-operatives price to Tesco is almost certain to be lower, whilst Tesco still make a handsome profit, and the co-operative make more than if they sold to Nescafe.

[ranger]

You seem to have missed the point.  Tesco and others have to pay the Nescafe price which includes a huge mark up.  The co-operatives price to Tesco is almost certain to be lower, whilst Tesco  still make a handsome profit, and the co-operative make more than if they sold to Nescafe.

I would also imagine that Tesco etc. see another market to sell goods, as in the "do gooders" (not my words) buying these products instead of boycotting companies goods (for example Nestle) and hence helping to increase profits as opposed to decreasing them.