American gun laws

[andsome]

I would urge all the American forum members who supported guns for all in a recent forum debate, to reconsider their support, after yet another school shooting tragedy in the states.

BBC

[Agent Smith]

It's no good andsome. They will simply cry that the constitution allows them to carry guns just so they can defend themselves against just such an attack as this :blink: It is a lost cause :(

[homecomputeraid]

I usually steer clear of controversy here, but I'll chime in and see what happens. :)

I'm excerpting from what I've read in the press so far, which is likely to change as coverage continues.

The guns were stolen from a police officer (the boy's Grandfather), who was also slain. Gun control laws may not have helped in this situation, unless you're proposing that police officers' guns should be locked at a police station.

[edit]I do of course grieve for the people killed and injured, and their families!

[Chris]

Bowling For Columbine.

Seen it?

[scuzzman]

This didn't happen because of our gun laws. This happened because this boy was seriously screwed up:

Described as a loner, Weise is reported to have expressed admiration for Adolf Hitler on a Nazi website.

[dadyassa]

Bowling For Columbine.

Seen it?

No but....... http://www.bowlingforcolumbine.com/media/g...oto-gallery.php

[Belatucadrus]

Even Michael Moore points out that legislation isn't the answer, there are more guns per head in Canada and they don't go around shooting each other. Guns are illegal in the UK, but this doesn't bother the gangs and crooks Read this on the Birmingham shooting The MAC-10 submachine gun used in Birmingham was about as illegal as anything can be in the UK.

Gun culture in the streets of the US and UK needs addressing, but it's a complex issue and the people guilty of these crimes are supremely indifferent to the legislation covering these items.

Somebody on the radio today was advocating the banning of toy guns, the response from several callers was that this was a non idea as the kids either made guns from the lego or used their fingers. Even nice kids rarely play wholesome games.

It should also be noted that the growth area in violent crime in the UK is knives, you can do a hell of a lot of damage with a kitchen paring knife, or the blade from a car multi tool.

I don't have the answer, just the feeling that knee jerk ban them legislation isn't going to work.

[homecomputeraid]

Guns are illegal in the UK, but this doesn't bother the gangs and crooks

Kind of my point Belatucadrus. Guns are ubiquitous here already. Our situation is different from countries where guns are very difficult to come by. Gun control laws will affect law abiding citizens much more severely than they will affect criminals. Where will all the 'illegal' guns go if they are outlawed?

I personally agree with some kind of uniform policy of criminal and psychological background checks and 'cooling off' periods of some kind, but that isn't likely here where states are given quite a bit of autonomy in such matters.

[joysness]

I, also, don't think it has anything to do with gun laws.

I just keep wondering, if they can't stop people from having guns, why not either stop making ammunition, or make ammunition that doesn't kill. :D

I just don't believe in killing. If people were taught that all life is sacred and that there are other ways to settle differences perhaps this sort of thing would stop happening.

I heard on the tv a few days ago that by the time an American child reaches the age of 14 they will have seen 12,000 simulated murders on tv.

Plus all the violent fighting we see in many sports games, video games etc.

And for those who will say they have a right to hunt, etc. etc. I'm not saying you don't have the right, I'm just saying that if people honored all life this sort of thing might not happen.

When we stop treating others so hatefully, and start having more compassion, those who carry out these deeds may not feel so threatened and would not think they need to kill to make a point, or make themselves feel better, or whatever excuse they use to justify an unjustifiable act.

:sadwalk: It saddens me.

[dadyassa]

Its the same kind of attitude since the cavemen, I have the biggest stick so I am in charge....... its just the weapons changing.

[djohn]

I grew up during the 50's, used to run about all over the place in my Cowboy outfit, had one of those revolvers that took a roll of caps [small explosive bangs guaranteed with every shot] I must have shot more imaginary Indians "Native Americans" than existed in the real world.

Then for a period of time I would be on the other side and fired countless arrows with rubber suction cups on the end, to balance out the population again.

Later on I joined our armed forces, used the real thing then, even have some access to very lethal firearms to this day.

What I'm trying to say here is, the playground of my childhood did not turn me into the type of person who we now read about, killing people - children for reasons that we will never grasp, no matter how hard we try.

Gun laws need to be strict not only here in the UK, but all over the world, but it will never stop the tragic deaths caused by the inhuman minds that carry out these atrocities.

My deepest sympathy goes out to all the families who have lost their loved ones this day. :(

[homecomputeraid]

Joysness,

I heard on the tv a few days ago that by the time an American child reaches the age of 14 they will have seen 12,000 simulated murders on tv.

I don't disupte that there is way too much violence and killing on TV and in Video Games here, but do you think it's different in other countries? I know that in Japan, there is much killing and violence on TV. I remember the Zatoichi TV series. The old Ronin and Samurai shows didn't show blood for the most part, but there was plenty of killing.

I just wonder whether the violence is unique to the US or is seen abroad as well.

[catgate]

Its the same kind of attitude since the cavemen, I have the biggest stick so I am in charge....... its just the weapons changing.

Isn't this the same ideology that Dubya, and to a lesser extent his poodle, are using, in all their machinations? Their sort of killing has become so normal to themselves and virtually everyone with access to any for of modern "entertainment" that killing, to most juveniles, is part of the normality of the world, and if the world leaders can do it well then..... although their thought process is not just that simple.

Guns do not kill. Knives do not kill. Baseball bats do not kill. Speed does not kill. It is the person using them that kills.

If we are to ban those things that kill the first batch should be politicians and the second batch should be film, news and magazine producers. This should then be followed by ensuring that the killer/s are put away for life and are made to shoulder the responsibility for their actions, by providing for the present and future dependants of those they have killed. They should also be made to provide for their own dependants even if it means working a 25 hour day eight days per week. After all that has been achieved the next target should be the Howard League for Penile Reform.

[joysness]

Joysness,

I heard on the tv a few days ago that by the time an American child reaches the age of 14 they will have seen 12,000 simulated murders on tv.

I don't disupte that there is way too much violence and killing on TV and in Video Games here, but do you think it's different in other countries? I know that in Japan, there is much killing and violence on TV. I remember the Zatoichi TV series. The old Ronin and Samurai shows didn't show blood for the most part, but there was plenty of killing.

I just wonder whether the violence is unique to the US or is seen abroad as well.

No I don't think it is unique to the US, I just think children in other countries are taught to honor other people more than here.

I too played "cowboys and indians" growing up but I was taught that in real life killing isn't a joke.

You can't "take it back" after the fact. Maybe I was just one of the lucky ones, whose parents did teach me different ways to handle disagreements.

I just see so many parents today being violent with their children, screaming at them, hitting them, whatever, it has to have a negative impact on them.

Children learn from what their parents do and so many parents don't seem to have the skills to raise loving, compassionate, caring children these days.

Maybe it's just that we are more aware of it today because the world is more available to us than when I grew up.

I just think we need to teach children, and adults for that matter, that violence isn't the answer.

[deuces wild]

We indeed need to enforce the current gun laws, although none will stop the street sale of guns including assault weapons. These are the weapons used in most crimes in the US.

But even if a gun or rifle is not available, take out your list of other avaiable weapons readily available at any corner hardware store. :rolleyes:

You have seen murders in the UK with knives, axes, hammers, rocks, screwdrivers, chain saws....ad infinitum.........

The root cause is mental illness. Consider this:

How many of you would kill someone *if* you were upset with them *and* a loaded handgun or rifle were sitting right next to you?

Given the same scenario but replacing a loaded gun with a knife, axe, chain saw or whatever would you still kill that person?

The problem is not with the tools. It is with the mental stability of the person.

[andsome]

Thank you all for contributing to this discussion. It seems that it is always going to be impossible to provide a complete answer. A very sad case. I will close the topic now. If anyone wants to add something please PM me.