Let the countdown begin.........

[deuces wild]

If you don't see it by now then no amount of reasoning will help you see why.

[edbanger]

but ...just why are we really there

For the OIL. If Iraq had the worlds largest reserves of cabbage, would Bush and his cronies still be interested. I think not. :P

[Tankus]

?.... well the BS excuse was the 45 min to Armageddon in the UK ..... but if the real reason ,which most peeps seems to now agree is economic....... just how did el capitano Blair and co expect to get their slice of the cabbage with Cheney and his lads from halitosis in charge of the purse strings ...?

[deuces wild]

but ...just why are we really there

For the OIL. If Iraq had the worlds largest reserves of cabbage, would Bush and his cronies still be interested. I think not. :P

That is indeed one reason why were are there.

The world runs on oil. If the mideast withdrew their supply to the west life as we know it changes.

But we are not there to take the oil.....if we were we would own the Iraqi oil fields. We want to ensure it remains available to the world.

[Tankus]

We want to ensure it remains available to the world.

heh ....or to be more precise ...the US

[deuces wild]

Why do you think that Tankus?

[andsome]

I have been out all evening and have only just seen all the updates. DW, you ask why should Dubya do anything which will detract from the US economy. The point is that per head of population the US uses far more of the world resources that anyone else. The way things are going there won't be any resources left. Dubya makes a lot of cash out of his involvement in the oil industry. America is also one of the dirtiest nations in the world as regards pollution. We all have to make sacrifices. Americans could well use smaller car engines rather than the gas guzzlers. Just imagine how much power is wasted in places like Las Vegas. Enough light is used there to light up the rest of the country. The US frightens me at times with their aggressive stances. It is well known now that the Iraq war was entered on the back of lies by the US AND their allies. America is not interested in the free world getting energy, they want as much as possible for themselves, and as cheaply as possible.

[deuces wild]

I have been out all evening and have only just seen all the updates. DW, you ask why should Dubya do anything which will detract from the US economy. The point is that per head of population the US uses far more of the world resources that anyone else. The way things are going there won't be any resources left. Dubya makes a lot of cash out of his involvement in the oil industry. America is also one of the dirtiest nations in the world as regards pollution. We all have to make sacrifices. Americans could well use smaller car engines rather than the gas guzzlers. Just imagine how much power is wasted in places like Las Vegas. Enough light is used there to light up the rest of the country. The US frightens me at times with their aggressive stances. It is well known now that the Iraq war was entered on the back of lies by the US AND their allies. America is not interested in the free world getting energy, they want as much as possible for themselves, and as cheaply as possible.

Take it up with China. They are the new resource hog yet were exempt from Kyoto standards.

Go figure. :rolleyes:

And care to prove your statement that the US is one of the dirtiest nations in the world in regards to pollution? I am prepared to show that you are wayyyyyyyyy off base andsome. B)

Funny how this thread turned into a US bashing thread. But what else it new? :lol:

[Tankus]

China is only just out of the blocks ....once every Chinese family has their MW's Tv's Washing machines and fridges ...we will be well into deep environmental s*** ..........

Its not US bashing...... Deuces ...just your government .......... I think you'll find that quite a few of us on this side of the pond... hold our own in just as much cynical contempt as well .....

Blair ..in the end (I think ) only got in on a total of 23% of the UK's voting population ....... ( I heard it on the beeb ...dont ask me for a link ..Im to tired to be arsed )

Why do you think that Tankus?

well ...I seriously doubt its altruism ...from death row Bush ....arf

[deuces wild]

Its not US bashing...... Deuces ...just your government .......... I think you'll find that quite a few of us on this side of the pond... hold our own in just as much cynical contempt as well .....

Fair enough........been there before and bought the tee shirt. I don't buy it though regardless of what you and others say. B)

Regardless.

What I don't understand is how this thread devolved the way it did. Edbanger fired the first shot for some reason and the normal anti-US members flooded in like water over a dam. One person in particular (a member who rarely posts here unless it comes to US bashing that is) was jolly on the spot as expected..........sort of like a fly on dog s***. :lol:

So........can we get back *on topic* folks?

BTW: I am still waiting from andsome for some *proof* that the US is "one of the dirtiest nations in the world as regards pollution". :rolleyes:

I have put on order 4 *UN* Approved US Toxic Gas masks awaiting your reply/(proof) andsome. I guess we should be worried..........very worried.

Do they sell an equivalent mask in the UK for UK toxic gasses and other pollution, or is the UK an environementally friendly/non polluting site? :rolleyes: :lol: :P

[Robbers Dog]

Let the countdown begin on when Iran......... will become nothing but a sheet of glass.

You cannot expect much support for America with thread titles like this, as it's your government or Israel, with your help, that would be destroying Iran.

The American government have wanted revenge on Iran, since their puppet the Shah was deposed and replaced by Ayatollah Khomeini in 1979. And in the same year we also had the siege of the American embassy in Tehran.

[andsome]

For starters.

Click here

Here is an extract from the next link.

What country is the largest source of global warming pollution?

The United States. Though Americans make up just 4 percent of the world's population, we produce 25 percent of the carbon dioxide pollution from fossil-fuel burning -- by far the largest share of any country. In fact, the United States emits more carbon dioxide than China, India and Japan, combined. Clearly America ought to take a leadership role in solving the problem. And as the world's top developer of new technologies, we are well positioned to do so -- we already have the know-how.

Click here

Here is an extract from the next link

Nonetheless, the Bush administration and its congressional allies have led a systematic effort to undermine the country’s keystone environmental and public health protections, as well as the protection of national parks and public lands. Clearly, the interests of industry take a far higher priority within national leadership than do the rights of the American people to a healthy environment -- which raises the question of whether we can afford to subject the protection of our communities and our planet to the whims of politics. While these anti-environmental efforts are unprecedented in their scope, I will focus on just three issues: the administration’s assault on the Clean Air Act, its relaxed enforcement of environmental laws, and its de-funding and slowdown of toxic waste cleanups.

Click here

Here is an extract from the next link

Emily Holley, Student Participant Newton High School, IowaAgua y Precio de Progres(Water and the Price of Progress) The United States of America is the wealthiest and most well-developed country in the history of the world. Those of us who are fortunate enough to call the United States home do not realize that we are also one of the most wasteful countries on the planet. If the rest of the world lived as we do, it would take at least two more planets to hold us and our waste.

Click here

Just found another for you.

Here is an extract

The attitude speaks for itself; America is a dangerous and irresponsible country as long it materialistically maintains that it's own selfish wellbeing is more important than any long-term world wide problems, even where it is the USA itself that causes those problems! With 36% of the worlds' greenhouse emissions and 25% of the whole worlds carbon dioxide's emissions, the USA appears to take responsibility for 0% of the consequences as long their bank balance is not affected.

.Click here

By the way. I am not US bashing. I have visited the country several times and thoroughly enjoyed it. I just happen to think that people over there need to get real and appreciate what is happening to our world. The UK also has a lot to answer for, and things are quite bad here, and insufficient is being done. However, as the worlds richest nation the US has to get its priorities right, and NOT just live for short term gain at present, but must think more about the future, or lack of it for our children and grandchildren

[catgate]

on dog s***.

I would not have called your original post that exactly, but if that is how you view it, so be it.

The posting of :-

Let the countdown begin on when Iran......... will become nothing but a sheet of glass.

by an American, gives the reader the impression of the Gung Ho outlook of Americans on the rest of the world, and goes a long way to explaining the anti U.S. feeling in much of the world, and why some of the reciprocations are less than gentle.

The lesson that the UK (with the exception of our current ego ridden leader, who is desperate to leave the world a legacy) learned, a long time ago, is that Might is not always Right. The U.S. still seems to think that Mightier is Rightier.

[deuces wild]

:roflmao: Pretty credible links andsome.

They are biased, *prove* nothing and all focus on global warming and Kyoto.

The jury is still out on whether or not mankind has caused global warming....for every scientist you can find who supports the claim there is one who does not. I do believe that global warming is occurring. I just think it is a natural phenomenon and natural cycle.

I still await some *proof* that the US is "one of the dirtiest nations in the world as regards pollution". :rolleyes:

[Tankus]

easy to see why Kyoto's a dead duck ...eh ...?.... Bush is just following the beliefs and wishes of the people that put him there .........

Incidentally .........black is not black ....white is not white....and blue is not blue .... It is just an interpretation by a persons brain of what it perceives ........

heh ...global warming ..?..nah mate ..its pink

[edbanger]

On April 19 1995, the largest terrorist attack in U.S. history, prior to 9/11, occurred on American soil.

The bomb in Oklahoma City that killed 168 people was carried out, not by an Islamic terrorist, but by the far right extremist Timothy McVeigh.

For you to say

I do know that every terrorist attack on the US has involved young Islamic men.

is obviously untrue. Is it because he was one of your own, you do not class him as a terrorist.

[andsome]

I have just edited this post because I don't think I should have included Catgates post in it, it did not make sense to include it. I was in a bit of a hurry.

This post does not just contain opinion, it contains facts and figures concerning percntages of greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide etc given out by the US compared with its population size. I don't know what further evidence you require. I cahllenge you to produce scientific evidence that the US is the worlds lowest producer of these emmisions, compared with its population size. In an earlier post you said (QUOTE:And care to prove your statement that the US is one of the dirtiest nations in the world in regards to pollution? I am prepared to show that you are wayyyyyyyyy off base andsome. )

[deuces wild]

Will get back to you later. Gotta run for now.

[andsome]

HERE IS A INDEPENDENT REPORT.

Earthtrends

[Tankus]

nah ...that ones purple ...so it doesn't count .... doesn't fit in with the plan

[deuces wild]

HERE IS A INDEPENDENT REPORT.

Earthtrends

Fair enough. The problem, however, is that you are focusing only on the US and not comparing us to other countries in regards to pollution.

Here is an interesting image showing pollution hotspots globally:

http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns...n6515-1_996.jpg

Source: http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6515

Notice that large red blob in Asia? Could it be.............................China? And they are exempt from Kyoto……imagine that.

And Europe is not without its air pollution problems. Since you are a fan of global warming, take a look at this:

Deaths from air pollution are likely to rise in European cities, due to the combined effects of climate change and the failure to reduce the emission levels of major pollutants, warns a UK expert.

Two reports recently published by the UK's Air Quality Expert Group, show that the UK will not meet key air quality standards set by the European Commission for 2010. Michael Pilling at Leeds University, director of the group, believes Europe's cities and heavily polluted areas like roadsides will also fail to meet these standards.

"We clearly have to look at improvements in technology," says Pilling, who presented the reports' findings at the British Association for the Advancement of Science Festival in Exeter, UK on Tuesday. "But it's not going to take us all the way. We have to look at other factors, in particular our use of cars."

High levels of nitrogen dioxide gas can cause severe respiratory problems and contribute to global warming. And particulate matter (PM) – tiny particles of dust, soot and metals - has been linked to heart disease, respiratory failure, and cancer. At ten microns in diameter, so-called PM10 particles can penetrate the lungs and enter the blood stream.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6364

And

Britain has one of the worst environmental records in Europe, according to a new index ranking countries on their performance on green issues which will be unveiled at the World Economic Forum in Davos this week.

The 2005 Environmental Sustainability Index (ESI), obtained by the Guardian ahead of Thursday's publication, was compiled by researchers at Yale and Columbia universities using 21 broad indicators covering pollution levels, policy and vulnerability to environmental damage. The aim, their report says, was to gauge each nation's ability "to protect the environment over the next several decades".

Britain is in a lowly state. It ranks 66th out of the 146 countries on the index, considerably behind most of northern Europe, the US (ranked 45th), and even most of the former Soviet Union.

"London's worse than Los Angeles or Houston, although Paris and Rome are far worse than London."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/waste/story/0,12188,1397838,00.html

And lastly

http://www.krtdirect.com/graphics/preview/preview.htm?doc=KRT%2Fkrtgfxlive%2Fdocs%2F017%2F430

The chart is difficult to read but it shows the US at 30 and the UK at 19.

Correct problems in your own back yard before you start throwing accusations at others. ;)

[dadyassa]

HERE IS A INDEPENDENT REPORT.

Earthtrends

nah ...that ones purple ...so it doesn't count .... doesn't fit in with the plan

Thats no good andsome, thats a pie chart, its gotta be in stars and stripes before he will believe you.

:lol: :lol:

[andsome]

I did say that things were also bad over here. The important thing is that although B'liar is not exactly well loved here now, he does at least recognise the problems, and is committed to doing something, although progress is all to slow. The problem with the US however is that Dubya is refusing to do anything, because it may set back the almighty dollar. Cash before common sense, as if he and his friends don't have enough already. China and Asia of course MUST as quickly as possible reduce emissions, but are NOT likely to do so when they see the world richest nation doing little or nothing. We need an example setting.

[deuces wild]

The problem with the US however is that Dubya is refusing to do anything, because it may set back the almighty dollar. Cash before common sense, as if he and his friends don't have enough already. China and Asia of course MUST as quickly as possible reduce emissions, but are NOT likely to do so when they see the world richest nation doing little or nothing.

Are you saying that:

1. The US is/has done nothing about air and water pollution? If so, you are wrong.

2. It is up to Bush to do something? Do you know how our government process works in the States andsome? We have the legistative branch, the executive branch and the judicial branch. The legistator, not the President (executive branch), makes laws and regulations.

Now how is it this topic turned to Bush bashing once again?

And will you finally admit that the US is not one of the dirtiest nations in the world as regards to pollution as you previously claimed?

Let's get back on course folks. Please read my opening to post to see what the original subject was.

Can we keep this *on topic*? Please.

[andsome]

My links pointed to failings in the Bush administration. Of course we are Bush bashing, as we frequently bash B'liar. I believe that it was originally an American saying, 'THE BUCK STOPS HERE', meaning at the top. Whether bits and pieces of legislation are the responsibility of local or national administration, that saying will always apply. I repeat that we need to get our act in order over here as well, but we do at least acknowledge our country's failings, and they are many. We do not imply that the sun shine out of our beloved leaders bum.

As regards keeping on topic, I believe that everyone who has posted has gradually contributed to the thread going off topic. This will invariably happen with most threads that last for much more than a page, as arguments gradually transgress.