This is brilliant

[andsome]

Most Christians, most Muslims, most Hindus, most Buddhists, most agnostics etc etc, are peace loving. I believe that we need to be wary of all fundamentalists, INCLUDING Christians and Muslims. I would certainly rank Dubya as fundamentalist, if he honestly believes that he is on speaking terms with his God. B'liar is just about a border line case.

[deuces wild]

Do you believe in God andsome?

[Tankus]

Oh dear!

quite ....!

[CurlyWhirly]

Nope.........to those who do not believe Saddam had WMD

I personally believe that the WMD threat was exaggerated but I do believe that Saddam did have WMD in the form of biological weapons as he had used them in the past on his own people.

On the outbreak of the Gulf War I would guess that he either smuggled them out of Iraq or hid them or perhaps even destroyed them to get rid of the evidence?

We may never know now though and does it really matter as Saddam has been removed from power and Iraq is again becoming a democracy as opposed to a dictatorship.

[dadyassa]

Oh dear!

quite ....!

My thoughts also ;)

[catgate]

Oh dear!

quite ....!

My thoughts also ;)

Where does all this fit in with Father Christmas and the tooth fairy?

[Tankus]

they are all urban myths and fables

[edbanger]

God TV.

http://www.godnetwork.com/#

[dadyassa]

Oh dear!

quite ....!

My thoughts also ;)

Where does all this fit in with Father Christmas and the tooth fairy?

Theres gotta be father christmas, cos he brings me presents every year, but i dont hear him talk to me :)

[andsome]

Do you believe in God andsome?

My answer to this question really does not have a place in this thread. For a start it would of necessity be rather long, and also has nothing to do with dangerous politicians who claim to be able to have discussions with their God., and than to follow his instructions to invade other country's, if you want to start a thread, I will do my best to compose a suitable answer, but be warned, it is a question that I don't feel able to answer with a simple yes or no.

On the topic of this thread, it would be interesting to know what you really think about claims by Dubya that he is under direct instruction from his God.

[Thos]

Nope.........to those who do not believe Saddam had WMD

I personally believe that the WMD threat was exaggerated but I do believe that Saddam did have WMD in the form of biological weapons as he had used them in the past on his own people.

On the outbreak of the Gulf War I would guess that he either smuggled them out of Iraq or hid them or perhaps even destroyed them to get rid of the evidence?

We may never know now though and does it really matter as Saddam has been removed from power and Iraq is again becoming a democracy as opposed to a dictatorship.

I am with you, Curly, on this.

Thos.

[ɹəuəllıʍ ʇɐb]

Nope.........to those who do not believe Saddam had WMD

I personally believe that the WMD threat was exaggerated but I do believe that Saddam did have WMD in the form of biological weapons as he had used them in the past on his own people.

On the outbreak of the Gulf War I would guess that he either smuggled them out of Iraq or hid them or perhaps even destroyed them to get rid of the evidence?

We may never know now though and does it really matter as Saddam has been removed from power and Iraq is again becoming a democracy as opposed to a dictatorship.

I am with you, Curly, on this.

Thos.

I am not sure if I should enter into this debade at all. But I have a few minutes before I go home, so I will write a few of my thoughts.

1. WMD or not - was that the real cause for going to war? Doctored intelligece to convince the American people (if not the rest of the world). Other nations in the region have or are building WMD, e.g. Iran, with an equally crazy leadership - why isn't the US invading them? North Korea?
   
2. Brutal dictatorship - cannot be denied. But the US has for decades supported brutal dictators all over the world (including Saddam Hussein!), and has never deemed it their business to intervene. Why now (2003)? Election strategy?
   
3. The other side of the coin is that Saddam Hussein controlled the people on Iraqi soil. He did not tolerate terrorism. He did not train terrorists, and he did not export terrorists. Today Iraq is the biggest terrorist recruiting and training ground in the world. And, as we have seen with the attack in Amman, they are exporting terrorists. Amman is just the first step in my opinion, next will be Israeli or European cities. And no doubt the U.S. of A. is high on their target list.
   

Anyone who believes that the world is a safer place now or in forseeable future is a fool. IMHO, of course.

[CurlyWhirly]

Just another opinion of mine for what it's worth.

I still stick by my last statement but I do not agree with the statement that God instructed Bush to carry out the Gulf War.

I am not a religious person though so perhaps it is not my place to enter into a religious topic :mellow:

[deuces wild]

Do you believe in God andsome?

My answer to this question really does not have a place in this thread. For a start it would of necessity be rather long, and also has nothing to do with dangerous politicians who claim to be able to have discussions with their God., and than to follow his instructions to invade other country's, if you want to start a thread, I will do my best to compose a suitable answer, but be warned, it is a question that I don't feel able to answer with a simple yes or no.

Whether or not you believe in God is quite relevant to this discussion. Also, you were also the one who introduced religion into the discussion.

So I will ask one more time..........do you believe in God andsome?

And a simple yes or no will do as there is no in between. :rolleyes:

[andsome]

Just another opinion of mine for what it's worth.

I still stick by my last statement but I do not agree with the statement that God instructed Bush to carry out the Gulf War.

I am not a religious person though so perhaps it is not my place to enter into a religious topic :mellow:

What we are saying is that Bush is daft enough to have us BELIEVE that he was acting under instructions from his God.

[CurlyWhirly]

What we are saying is that Bush is daft enough to have us BELIEVE that he was acting under instructions from his God

In a word 'Yes'.

[Guest be@vis]

Whether, or not, andsome believes in God is irrelevant. The question you should be asking is "Do I feel safe knowing that the man with his finger on the nuclear trigger is delusional enough to believe he's getting messages from the aforementioned deity. This week Iraq - who knows, next week...maybe the world!"

Don't ask whether I believe in God...it's none of your business.

[andsome]

Do you believe in God andsome?

My answer to this question really does not have a place in this thread. For a start it would of necessity be rather long, and also has nothing to do with dangerous politicians who claim to be able to have discussions with their God., and than to follow his instructions to invade other country's, if you want to start a thread, I will do my best to compose a suitable answer, but be warned, it is a question that I don't feel able to answer with a simple yes or no.

Whether or not you believe in God is quite relevant to this discussion. Also, you were also the one who introduced religion into the discussion.

So I will ask one more time..........do you believe in God andsome?

And a simple yes or no will do as there is no in between. :rolleyes:

You say that I introduced religion into the discussion. In fact I STARTED the thread, drawing attention to the fact that a certain fundamentalist Christian CLAIMED that his God actually instructed him to invade another country. What else would he have us believe that his God has or will instruct him to do.

Regarding your question as to whether or not I believe in God. I must answer this with another question. To which god are you referring? there are many varied claims as to who or what the true God is. As I have said, if you wish to start a thread on Gods, I will be more than happy to join in the discussion, but this question cannot be answered with a simple yes or no, and my answer may well be long. The whole purpose of this thread was NOT to start a debate about whether or not Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. It was to draw attention to how frightening it is to have someone in the Whitehouse, who is prepared to have us all believe that he is NOT personally responsible for his actions, but that his God is. This is exactly the Nazis used after the second world war, when they blamed their participation in all sorts of atrocities upon having to obey the orders of the fuhrer.

[deuces wild]

There is only one God. Different religions call Him various names,.

[Guest be@vis]

In the name of God, somebody close this thread - it's degenerating rapidly.

[deuces wild]

Why, because God is being discussed??

[Guest be@vis]

This site would probably be more to your liking - http://www.amish-heartland.com/

[deuces wild]

Very nice. Thanks.

[catgate]

Another avenue for the "serious" enquirer is to visit (and read) :-

http://www.venusproject.com/Thomas_Paine/reason1.htm

http://www.venusproject.com/Thomas_Paine/reason2.htm

the second being more detailed.

A Biography of Thomas Paine (1737-1809)

Thomas Paine was born on the twenty-nineth of January 1737 at Thetford, Norfolk in England, as a son of a Quaker. After a short basic education, he started to work, at first for his father, later as an officer of the excise. During this occupation Thomas Paine was an unsuccesfull man, and was twice dismissed from his post. In 1774, he met Benjamin Franklin in London, who advised him to emigrate to America, giving him letters of recommandation.

Paine landed at Philadelphia on November 30, 1774. Starting over as a publicist, he first published his African Slavery in America, in the spring of 1775, criticizing slavery in America as being unjust and inhumaine. At this time he also had become co-editor of the Pennsylvania Magazine On arriving in Philadelphia, Paine had sensed the rise of tension, and the spirit of rebellion, that had steadily mounted in the Colonies after the Boston Teaparty and when the fightings had started, in April 1775, with the battles of Lexington and Concord. In Paine's view the Colonies had all the right to revolt against a government that imposed taxes on them but which did not give them the right of representation in the Parliament at Westminster. But he went even further: for him there was no reason for the Colonies to stay dependent on England. On January 10, 1776 Paine formulated his ideas on american independence in his pamphlet Common Sense.

In his Common Sense, Paine states that sooner or later independence from England must come, because America had lost touch with the mother country. In his words, all the arguments for separation of England are based on nothing more than simple facts, plain arguments and common sense. Government was necessary evil that could only become safe when it was representative and altered by frequent elections. The function of government in society ought to be only regulating and therefore as simple as possible. Not suprisingly, but nevertheless remarkable was his call for a declaration of independence. Due to the many copies sold (500.000) Paine's influence on the Declaration of Independence of July 4, 1776 is eminent. Another sign of his great influence is the number of loyalist reactions to Common Sense.

During the War of Independence Paine volunteered in the Continental Army and started with the writing of his highly influencial sixteen American Crisis papers, which he published between 1776 and 1783. In 1777 he became Secretary of the Committee of Foreign Affairs in Congress, but already in 1779 he was forced to resign because he had disclosed secret information. In the following nine years he worked as a clerck at the Pennsylvania Assembly and published several of his writings.

In 1787 Thomas Paine left for England, innitialy to raise funds for the building of a bridge he had designed, but after the outbreak of the French Revolution he became deeply involved in it. Between March 1791 and February 1792 he published numerous editions of his Rights of Man, in which he defended the French Revolution against the attacks by Edmund Burke, in his Reflections on the Revolution in France. But it was more then a defence of the French Revolution: An analysis of the roots of the discontent in Europe, which he laid in arbitrary government, poverty, illiteracy, unemployment and war. The book being banned in England because it opposed to monarchy, Paine failed to be arrested because he was already on his way to France, having been ellected in the National Convention. Though a true republicanist, he was imprisoned in 1793 under Robespierre, because he had voted against the execution of the dethroned king Louis XVI. During his imprisonment the publication of his Age of Reason started. Age of Reason was written in praise of the achievements of the Age of Enlightment, and it was om this book that he was acussed of being an atheist.

After his release he stayed in France until 1802, when he sailed back to America, after an invitation by Thomas Jefferson who had met him before when he was minister in Paris and who admirred him. Back in the United States he learned that he was seen as a great infidel, or simply forgotten for what he had done for America. He continued his critical writings, for instance against the Federalists and on religious superstition.

After his death in New York City on June 8, 1809 the newspapers read: He had lived long, did some good and much harm, which time judged to be an unworthy epitaph.

[Guest be@vis]

Looks like it may make interesting reading, but too long to read at present, so I've downloaded the pdf for perusal at a later time.