This makes any normal person feel SICK

[Thos]

This thread has gone way, way off course.

Isn't it time to close and, if a continuation of the development is seen appropriate, start a new one?

I'm exhausted anyway.

Thos.

[Tankus]

why close or delete threads if they are not in violation .....they will soon go if they become uninteresting

But most of all, I wish they would see sense, stop the mumbo jumbo, take off their frocks and do some useful activity

Ah ..a John Wesley'ism ...if ever I heard one ...some Taffy blood in you Thos ..?

...

Deuces ...... I mentioned in the other place "walls built out of fear " ...either in or out ....what about the other stuff ......?

[catgate]

This thread has gone way, way off course.

Isn't it time to close and, if a continuation of the development is seen appropriate, start a new one?

It all seems to be still pertinant to the underlying problem illustrated by andsome's original post, to me.

In your analysis, I believe you have outlined the problem of the behaviour of many of our youths, rudeness and so on; indeed the chap you often refer to as your cherub has tried to act on this many times.

Where we disagree is in the belief that it is all initiated by what you call the "scum at the top". You think they are impoverishing the people. How so? Do you really think that the nation is being impoverished? I don't think any impartial observer could say that economically this is so. (Although there are good arguments that it is so in a cultural sense....but I don't think that was part of your thesis)

As far as "initiating the slaughter, etc.", I assume you are talking modern times about the invasion of Iraq rather than other wars. Well, there were good reasons for that action but no government would have undertaken it light-heartedly to "gain their own ends" by which I assume you mean selfish ends rather than national ones.

Thos.

Our little cherub can legislate until he is blue in the face, and it will do no good. Look what has happened to serious legislation like guns, drugs etc. People will only take notice of the example set by those they can look up to, and, as another of today's topics shows, the morals of the denizens of the Palace of Westminster are much worse than questionable.

But I was not confining my observations to only present day happenings in this country. I was talking of all the "leaders" of the world over the millenia. All the peoples of the world have been "impoverished" by their leaders, both morally and economically. In the west they have become wage slaves. In the middle ages, in this country, people worked for the Lord of the Manor for a certain number of days per year (may be 100) in return for a piece of land on which, for the rest of the year, they could grow crops and animals for themselves, for market or home consumption. Now it is 5 days per week working for a company/business, with enormous monetary demands by the counries leaders, both on the company and the employee. In other parts of the world leaders just keep the charity handed out by the west, and do not even play the charade of democracy. The church has done the same. In this country it demanded a tenth of the income of the peasants and spent it on lavish buildings and posh frocks, in order to give itself a powerful and dignified veneer, so that it could ensure their were plenty of "meek" hoping to inherit the earth (if only they could live long enough). Exactly the same principal was used world wide.

This idea of "for the good of the country" is again a lot of political and relgious drivel. The fields and trees, and birds and bees gain nothing from wars and strife and hardship. The only ones to benefit are the establishment and the supporters of the countries' leaders. The people go out as battle fodder, or work overtime making bullets to "take out" the opposition. The only time "for the good of the people" would be true would be in cases such as 1939 when proper defence was necessary. Not the sort of defence that exists today. (You know, the sort of defense department that can go out and attack.) Though if it had not been for that well know leader with a toothbrush moustache, and his supporters, it would not have been necessary.

I'm doing it again.

I'm going back to ironing out kinks in my PC set up. My USB2 PCI is not playing the game.

[djohn]

Set the Iron to steam and don't apply to much pressure, especially on the graphic card.

[catgate]

Set the Iron to steam and don't apply to much pressure, especially on the graphic card.

I have seriously considered a garden roller! I am just wondering if it has got a serious case of the gobblethripes.

[-pops-]

why close or delete threads if they are not in violation .....they will soon go if they become uninteresting

I have not closed or deleted anything. I felt, and still feel, that this thread has gone off course and if it is wanted to continue in the way it is doing then a new header might be more appropriate to the subject now under discussion.

[doug]

I think I may have closed a few more threads than pops. I'm agreeing with him that this thread has had a very good airing. If anyone wants to continue in similar lines - please start a new thread. IF someone has a new point then post in this thread.

[andsome]

I agree that things are now way off my original thread. Suffice to say, getting back to the basic thread, that B'liar failed to outright condemn this action when asked yesterday. I will now close the thread. If anyone wants to start something similar, I daresay that I will contribute. Many thanks to all for a stimulating debate.