Well , no one else has mentioned it ....!

[andsome]

If you add the 'Thatcher Years' to the 'B'liar Years' you could say, whichever side of the fence you stand on, that we have had twenty seven and a half years of hell really.

Thatcher was by no means perfect, but in her earlier years she was infinitely better than this bunch of crooks.

[Watchful]

I feel rather sorry for Tony, he did his best

Can't muster much sympathy for Maggie though....

[catgate]

I feel rather sorry for Tony, he did his best

Can't muster much sympathy for Maggie though....

That's an odd outcome when one considers the old adage about the piper and the tune, because they were both being paid by the same bunch.

[andsome]

I feel rather sorry for Tony, he did his best

Can't muster much sympathy for Maggie though....

His so called best was by no means good enough. His government has proved to be even more crooked than the last Tory government and that is saying something. The very poor are now poorer, and the top 10% of rich are wealthier. much of the legislation has been completely botched. he has played the prima donna on the world stage for more than long enough.

[Watchful]

I feel rather sorry for Tony, he did his best

Can't muster much sympathy for Maggie though....

His so called best was by no means good enough. His government has proved to be even more crooked than the last Tory government and that is saying something. The very poor are now poorer, and the top 10% of rich are wealthier. much of the legislation has been completely botched. he has played the prima donna on the world stage for more than long enough.

That's quite true. He is a Tory isn't he?

He's cute though :D

[Thos]

If you add the 'Thatcher Years' to the 'B'liar Years' you could say, whichever side of the fence you stand on, that we have had twenty seven and a half years of hell really.

I looked for the "smiley" after that but couldn't see one, so I presume it is a serious comment.

If so, for what it is worth, I disassociate myself from it completely. I disagree with many of the policies of all of the Governments which have been in power for the last 27 plus years, but I cannot say that life has been hell because of them.

Thos.

[Watchful]

Speaking on a personal level, my life has been much better under this government but I haven't had need of the Health Service much, or schools, or public transport etc. but am not deaf to those who have had problems.

They all have their faults but we, as a family, were a lot worse off under Maggie than we are now, perhaps because the birds have flown? I don't know.

Having said that; there is not a lot to choose between them now as far as sleaze and integrity go.

I am curious to see how Gordon fares

[andsome]

I for one was definitely better off under Maggie. I was able to take advantage of Peps and Tessas for a start. Brown took those away and replaced them with less tax efficient Isas. Brown took away the tax free status of private and company pension funds, reducing the value of everyones pension pot in a single stroke. Remember also that in the latest budget he lowered the 25% tax band to 20%, but removed the 10 % band altogether. This means that the lowest paid workers, getting round about £16000 or less are worse off, and will pay more tax, while those on £40000 or more will pay less. Those in between are more or less the same. Regarding Brown as a future PM, he has already proved to be more devious than most before him with the largest ever increases in stealth taxes. Look at the mess made of tax credits that were meant to help the poor, but have left some people still waiting for what is theirs by right, and others getting huge demands to pay back what they have allegedly been over paid through no fault of their own. The anti hunting bill was a fiasco. The so called reform of the house of Lords is another fiasco, with the political leaders still in the position of being able to send their friends there, instead of the people electing a second chamber. How long before B;liar ands up there? The anti smoking in public places bill has been another farce, with more changes made as the government changed their minds than most people change their underwear. Just about every piece of legislation has been botched in one way or another. The health service now costs billions more, and yet nurses are being laid off as are junior doctors and dentists, while there are more overpaid managers and hangers on than ever.

I don't suppose that you saw the programme a few days ago about Brown, and what he has done did you?

[Watchful]

Yes I did as a matter of fact. It painted him black of course but that was the programme's intention.

There have been a lot of c**k-ups with this government, there's no denying it, but would the Tories have done any better? I think not. They would certainly have taken us into the war.

Trouble is, there is no viable opposition to this bunch so we're stuck with them for the time being.

Regarding years under Thatcher, I speak on a personal level, we were worse off and I remember the big slump in house prices and all the negative equity :(

[Thos]

I suppose it is natural that policy is judged by it’s effect on one’s personal circumstances, but it is not necessarily right to do so. For example, the action of removing the tax break on pension schemes had good reasons in the national interest. At that time it was not done in isolation, but there were other compensatory actions. Those arguments have been well-rehearsed. It has hurt individuals and it is understandable that those individuals now complain. Nevertheless, the tenure of the present Chancellor should be judged by the way the economy has performed over the years of his guardianship of the Treasury (IMHO).

For my part, I believe that again, judgement in the national interest, there has hardly been a better time than the last 12 years or so. Do you not remember, those of you who are old enough, when interest rates could go up 4 percentage points in a month, or occasionally in a day. Since early 1992 Britain has grown for consecutive quarters, easily the longest run on record. No other G7 country has experienced such a record. In fact, every other big country suffered a recession.

3 million new jobs have been created (net). The average growth rate has been 2.8% (previous long run average was 2.5%) and so the economy is almost 5% larger than under the previous growth rate.

Inflation has averaged 2.6% on the RPI and 1.8% on the CPI. Importantly, no wild swings in the inflation rate. In terms of stability this has gone from being the world’s worst to being the world’s best, or something near it.

And all of this in the face of some daunting global challenges. The tripling of world oil prices, the effect of 9/11, the Asian financial crisis and other factors. After 2 decades of boom and bust we have at last experienced aconomic stability in the most stable and successful period of modern times.

I cannot hope to persuade those of you who “loathe” Gordon Brown and his Chancellorship but I do hope that members will consider, not their personal circumstances only, but the wider picture. Vote for whoever you like, but don’t denigrate the national economic achievements of the past few years.

Thos.

[Tankus]

that was a party political postcast by Gordons uncle

thank you

and good night

[Thos]

that was a party political postcast by Gordons uncle

thank you

and good night

I belong to no political party nor have I ever done.

Thos. ( Goodnight)

[Irene]

that was a party political postcast by Gordons uncle

thank you and good night

I belong to no political party nor have I ever done. Thos. ( Goodnight)

Goodnight Thos. Sleep tight.

[catgate]

After 2 decades of boom and bust we have at last experienced economic stability in the most stable and successful period of modern times.

Yes it does appear that way, unless you take into account the fact that an awful lot of what has been spent under Gordon's stewardship has been PFI "on the never never". A clever ruse thought up by Maggie's lot and only sparsely used by them. It shows up Gordon as being a bit of a Prudence and leaves future incoming governments, of whatever persuasion, to pick up the bills and take the consequences.

As far as the National Interest and the Country's Economy is concerned one thing needs defining. What constitutes "The Country"?

In the days of the Whigs and Tories it was political speak for the landed gentry, the large country landowners, the squirearchy, and the establishment, from whence came political power and it's necessary funds. The "Country" has now metamorphosed into financiers, bankers, industrialists, asset managementers, and tax haven dwellers.

So, viewed from this perspective, it is a fact that the Country's Economy is very satisfactory indeed. It can not be otherwise when they are paying the piper. There are so many instances of the distortion of truth for effect, by using the "well-being of The Country" as a red herring. One that always sticks is the one that goes, " It is better for the Country to have a certain amount of unemployment". The country is trees and fields, roads and houses. The people who live in Great Britain have never been better for unemployment. How is the country better for unemployment, unless one interprets country and Country as above? How it is better for the population to suffer unemployment,and have Sanjeev and his sisters running the country's "service centres" from the sub continent, baffles me totally.

Things have got to such a state at present that the governing of this country is not for the benefit of its population but for the benefit of those paying the piper. The dwellers in serfdom must be content with the sprinkling of crumbs dropped from the top table just to keep them sweet enough not to rock the boat, whilst new measures are dreamed up to control them.

The success of a government, in my opinion, is the measure of how it improves what has become known as the quality of life of the electorate. By this yard stick each successive government for the last 40 years, or more, has been an abject failure. Furthermore there can be no improvement if "democracy", in its present form, is allowed to continue.

Unless a true and representative democracy is introduced...somehow...this country will very shortly rank alongside third world "democratic dictatorships" and we shall enjoy their "quality of life".

Yes, I know, I do go on a bit. :(

[Irene]

Goodnight Catgate Sleep tight.

[Watchful]

catgate....you are quite right about the definition of Country, the people of our country, and it is run by money-handlers and power-seekers. The rich get rich and the poor get poorer :(

In my opinion there will be no true democracy until every vote counts, and every eligible voter places their cross.

Question is, what's to be done about it?

PS - there's no such thing as service anymore, good service that is, and yet with all this technology it should be something we excel at. I scream inwardly when someone tells me over the phone that they can't access my account

[andsome]

catgate....you are quite right about the definition of Country, the people of our country, and it is run by money-handlers and power-seekers. The rich get rich and the poor get poorer :(

In my opinion there will be no true democracy until every vote counts, and every eligible voter places their cross.

Question is, what's to be done about it?

PS - there's no such thing as service anymore, good service that is, and yet with all this technology it should be something we excel at. I scream inwardly when someone tells me over the phone that they can't access my account

That is of course when you eventually get to speak to someone, and can hopefully understand the Indian accent.

[Watchful]

This may sound grumpy but what the heck! In recent years I have only had about two instances of good service. Namely, the pensions people at Newcastle and Amazon online. All the others, utilities, insurance companies etc. etc. are fraught with complicated telephone connections, unkept promises and useless advice.

When you want to sort something out or correct an error it is almost impossible. Is this progress?

A particular bee in my bonnet is the Insurance company who send (about once a fortnight) expensive printed matter offering free gifts if you take up their offer when you are already covered by this company! What a waste!

No wonder people become apathetic as I'm beginning to feel that the only way to get through life is to ignore everything, wear blinkers and ear-plugs and let everything go over your head. Above all, don't read any newspapers or watch any newsreels, especially from abroad, thereby eliminating all those things that wind you up on a daily basis.

Ignorance is bliss

[andsome]

This may sound grumpy but what the heck! In recent years I have only had about two instances of good service. Namely, the pensions people at Newcastle and Amazon online. All the others, utilities, insurance companies etc. etc. are fraught with complicated telephone connections, unkept promises and useless advice.

When you want to sort something out or correct an error it is almost impossible. Is this progress?

A particular bee in my bonnet is the Insurance company who send (about once a fortnight) expensive printed matter offering free gifts if you take up their offer when you are already covered by this company! What a waste!

No wonder people become apathetic as I'm beginning to feel that the only way to get through life is to ignore everything, wear blinkers and ear-plugs and let everything go over your head. Above all, don't read any newspapers or watch any newsreels, especially from abroad, thereby eliminating all those things that wind you up on a daily basis.

Ignorance is bliss

I put all junk mail into it's prepaid envelope and return it with a cryptic not saying that any such mail will be returned at the senders expense. Regarding newspapers, as far as I am concerned they are no better than comics, and I have not bought one in years, I get the local news from the three free papers that we receive every week.

[catgate]

PS - there's no such thing as service anymore, good service that is, and yet with all this technology it should be something we excel at. I scream inwardly when someone tells me over the phone that they can't access my account

Service does not make a direct measurable profit, it can not be shown on the balance sheet. The political "leaders" of this country, have long since abandoned any pretence of service, and have taken on the balance sheet approach, which has strengthened the similar approach of most businesses, large and small.

What sort of service can be provided by the likes of Sanjeev and his sisters, when one can not understand what they are saying as they read their scripts?

Answers on the back of a blank cheque to the usual address.

[Tankus]

the trough awaits

Blair as a budget Al Gore wannabee eco "film star"

next ...he invents the internet

Oh my god

the pope better watch out

[andsome]

the trough awaits

Blair as a budget Al Gore wannabee eco "film star"

next ...he invents the internet

Oh my god

the pope better watch out

He obviously fancies himself in a white frock. :lol:

[Tankus]

Ive got a very unsettling feeling that Blair's legacy may not actually be Iraq , but the federalism of Europe , which is why he has hung on for this week ....

I read a few (right wing mainly ) political blogs , and there appears to be a lot of stuff going under the counter and under mainstream reporting ... sliding in policies that originally required a referendum to pass .... But the French and Dutch voting public scuppered it being up front .... but the politicos on the Eurogravytrain are running with it anyway !

The grandstanding of Brown getting Blair to change the red lines drawn over the phone is utter media consumption bollacks .... Its just the gravy ....the meat has already gone ........

The fallout may be more significant than anything Heath signed up to

Just whose interests is Blair acting for ?

bulls*** and joking aside ... I am honestly worried because I dont think its our countrys

But a political pension plan

edit ......................................................................

the twins terrible

gotta just lurve these two ...........................(EU business)

Voting rights in the EU is to be based on country population size (Murkel)

so Herr Germany has the biggest say ...

Up pops number one (or was it number two ) and sez , Poland would have had a bigger population and thus voting power if it hadn't been for the Nazis killing millions of poles in WW2

wheres john cleese when you need him ...arf

[catgate]

I do hope you are wrong. I have not yet seen the tie up between an enlarged all powerful EU and the aims of the Biderberg pirates.

[andsome]

I see an agreement was reached last night. They just changed a word or two, and a constitution on which we should have had a referendum, becomes a treaty which does not require a referendum. Just how much did this circus of the last few days cost us all in salaries, hotels and other grossly inflated expenses? What has been sneaked through under the table, and how much wealthier will this make the gravy train drivers? B'liar must be one of the biggest traitors so far this century. I don't think even Heath would have been 100% happy with the shower in charge now.