This surprises me

[andsome]

I am shocked at the findings of this survey, that only 59% of people worldwide are against the use of torture. In two supposedly civilised countries the US and GB the figures really do shock me. 24% of Britons agree with the use of torture, and 36% of Americans agree. No wonder the world is in such a sad state.

I can't beleive this.

[-pops-]

It shocked me, as well, andsome.

[Thos]

I find it absolutely astonishing that the use of torture can be condoned in a civilised country. There is no evidence that the use of torture will give any useful information. It degrades the torturers and the condoners of the practice.

Thos.

[andsome]

The point is that if like me you only practise one religion, that of devout cowardice, torture can achieve nothing at all. If I was being questioned I would tell the truth, but at the slightest hint of any pain, I would sing whatever song the interrogators wanted.

[catgate]

The answers to the specific questions quoted, in my opinion, do not justify the conclusions reached. They do however provide numbers upon which exaggerated claims can be made. The item drew a general conclusion from a specific matter....terrorism.

There was one glaring omission, and that was the question of whether it was known that the person to be tortured actually had any information that was of value.

[AlanHo]

Why should it be so surprising that a survey specifically aimed at terrorism should produce such a result. There is no doubt that a survey - or even better a referendum - on capital punishment for the most heinous crimes would produce a massive majority in favour.

I think we call it human nature - it may not be right - but that's how we are made.

[r4may]

anyone sinking to the level of using torture to obtain anything disgusts me, it does not guarantee accurate results and is barbarously inhuman.

Never did agree with capital punishment either.

[catgate]

It's a funny thing but much of the world has been controlled by the threat of torture (by the church in all its guises) for centuries. "If you do not do as we say, god will roast you in hell."

It is extaordinary the length to which some poor beggers go in torturing themselves, mentally and physically, just to avoid that torture.

[Gagaman]

My wife teaches religion and morality.

Her students are are between 16-19 years old.

One exercise she makes with them is based on the Milgram experiment

So she tells the students she needs volunteers for an project of an university.

In her story, scientists are looking for volunteers to do a test about the pain a human can bear.

So in this fictive experiment, her pupils will give electro shocks to a men/woman. The scientist will go further and further and ask them to higher the electric voltage...

Infact the test is about obeying... will you do what an 'integer' scientist will ask you... or can you say no, if you see that you are causing pain... (no need to say that the person receiving the shocks, is simulating...)

Most of the pupils want to be part of the project...

In the debat after the annoncement many off the pupils says they are not responsible for the pain they cause... Its the experiment leader that is responsible...

I think this also counts for the above article... many people approve torture, als long as another one is responsible for it... Even more if the responsible is considered as a worthfull person/institute (like an university, a democratic country, ...). Also if the one tortured is a know as an 'evil' one (terrrorist), people 'forget' about their moral conscience.

Like some germans in word war II that misbehaved told at the Nurnberg trial: "befehl ist befehl"...

[deuces wild]

I am shocked at the findings of this survey, that only 59% of people worldwide are against the use of torture. In two supposedly civilised countries the US and GB the figures really do shock me. 24% of Britons agree with the use of torture, and 36% of Americans agree. No wonder the world is in such a sad state.

I can't beleive this.

Neither can I!

What an absolute bunch of BS. No where does the article define what is meant as *torture* yet they show a picture of 2 persons obviously whipped, inferring that whipping was acceptable to those who voted for torture.

Do I condone torture? Yep, at least when it is limited to tactics such as sleep deprivation, making one stand in their underwear for hours upon end, water dunking and making one live in extreme temperatures or noises. Heck, these tactics are no different than those used by college fraternities during their initiation rituals. Additionally, the last I checked our troops suffer through extreme temperatures (up to 130F) while having to wear full combat clothing and gear. Most importantly, using these tactics have resulted in significant intelligence that has saved thousand of lives worldwide.

Compare these tactics to the extreme tactics of Saddam and the terrorist including acid baths, amputations, rapes and be-headings, none of which are acceptable torture tactics. Do I endorse this type of torture? Absolutely not.

Since you are reporting on torture by the US and UK where was your rage against these tactics when they were reported? Can you provide a link that shows your outrage, similar to that you report here?

The BBS obviously tried to sway public opinion against the war with this article. Shame on them for using gutter and unacceptable tactics when trying to do so.

I am surprised you (and others) bought into their BS as I thought you were smarter than that. :(

[ɹəuəllıʍ ʇɐb]

If you condone torture, then you condone torture of innocents, as the German guy who was abducted to Afghanistan and tortured for a year, or the Canadian guy who was sent to Syria for torture. Not to mention all those tortured to death in prisons such as the infamous Abu Grahib and others.

Maybe you only condone "light torture" such as "waterboarding"; however, you should know that Japanese torturers after WWII were convicted by US military courts as war criminals for using such methods.

I am at a loss of words to express how low our "civilization" has sunk! But does it really surprise me? No, not with the leaders you have elected in the US and UK!

Most importantly, using these tactics have resulted in significant intelligence that has saved thousand of lives worldwide.

Talking about BS...

[andsome]

I am shocked at the findings of this survey, that only 59% of people worldwide are against the use of torture. In two supposedly civilised countries the US and GB the figures really do shock me. 24% of Britons agree with the use of torture, and 36% of Americans agree. No wonder the world is in such a sad state.

I can't beleive this.

Neither can I!

What an absolute bunch of BS. No where does the article define what is meant as *torture* yet they show a picture of 2 persons obviously whipped, inferring that whipping was acceptable to those who voted for torture.

Do I condone torture? Yep, at least when it is limited to tactics such as sleep deprivation, making one stand in their underwear for hours upon end, water dunking and making one live in extreme temperatures or noises. Heck, these tactics are no different than those used by college fraternities during their initiation rituals. Additionally, the last I checked our troops suffer through extreme temperatures (up to 130F) while having to wear full combat clothing and gear. Most importantly, using these tactics have resulted in significant intelligence that has saved thousand of lives worldwide.

Compare these tactics to the extreme tactics of Saddam and the terrorist including acid baths, amputations, rapes and be-headings, none of which are acceptable torture tactics. Do I endorse this type of torture? Absolutely not.

Since you are reporting on torture by the US and UK where was your rage against these tactics when they were reported? Can you provide a link that shows your outrage, similar to that you report here?

The BBS obviously tried to sway public opinion against the war with this article. Shame on them for using gutter and unacceptable tactics when trying to do so.

I am surprised you (and others) bought into their BS as I thought you were smarter than that. :(

So if you or a loved one of yours was arrested on suspicion, you would be perfectly happy to be tortured or allow them to be tortured, even though this was likely to produce a FALSE admission? How can you claim that torture has saved thousands world wide? A good many are like me, devout cowards and would sing any song to avoid pain.

[catgate]

I am surprised you (and others) bought into their BS as I thought you were smarter than that. :(

It takes a smart patriotic American to recognise BS. Well done.

[Thos]

Do I condone torture? Yep, at least when it is limited to tactics such as sleep deprivation, making one stand in their underwear for hours upon end, water dunking and making one live in extreme temperatures or noises. Heck, these tactics are no different than those used by college fraternities during their initiation rituals. Additionally, the last I checked our troops suffer through extreme temperatures (up to 130F) while having to wear full combat clothing and gear. Most importantly, using these tactics have resulted in significant intelligence that has saved thousand of lives worldwide.

I am surprised you (and others) bought into their BS as I thought you were smarter than that. :(

I think that you are wrong, DW, to condone even those tactics. And, incidentally, I think it is also wrong for college frats to exercise demeaning initiation rituals. You are also muddying the waters when you relate these practises to the suffering of troops. One bears no relation to the other.

Andsome puts it well. If a relative of yours was suspected of something or other and was subjected to even the tactics you condone, you would be one of the first to claim this should not happen in a civilised society. And of course, it wouldn't stop there. The thought that anyone has the right to use torture because their opponent is smaller, less powerful or even captive is sickening.

Thos.

[andsome]

Do I condone torture? Yep, at least when it is limited to tactics such as sleep deprivation, making one stand in their underwear for hours upon end, water dunking and making one live in extreme temperatures or noises. Heck, these tactics are no different than those used by college fraternities during their initiation rituals. Additionally, the last I checked our troops suffer through extreme temperatures (up to 130F) while having to wear full combat clothing and gear. Most importantly, using these tactics have resulted in significant intelligence that has saved thousand of lives worldwide.

I am surprised you (and others) bought into their BS as I thought you were smarter than that. :(

I think that you are wrong, DW, to condone even those tactics. And, incidentally, I think it is also wrong for college frats to exercise demeaning initiation rituals. You are also muddying the waters when you relate these practises to the suffering of troops. One bears no relation to the other.

Andsome puts it well. If a relative of yours was suspected of something or other and was subjected to even the tactics you condone, you would be one of the first to claim this should not happen in a civilised society. And of course, it wouldn't stop there. The thought that anyone has the right to use torture because their opponent is smaller, less powerful or even captive is sickening.

Thos.

Well said.

[deuces wild]

I am shocked at the findings of this survey, that only 59% of people worldwide are against the use of torture. In two supposedly civilised countries the US and GB the figures really do shock me. 24% of Britons agree with the use of torture, and 36% of Americans agree. No wonder the world is in such a sad state.

I can't beleive this.

Neither can I!

What an absolute bunch of BS. No where does the article define what is meant as *torture* yet they show a picture of 2 persons obviously whipped, inferring that whipping was acceptable to those who voted for torture.

Do I condone torture? Yep, at least when it is limited to tactics such as sleep deprivation, making one stand in their underwear for hours upon end, water dunking and making one live in extreme temperatures or noises. Heck, these tactics are no different than those used by college fraternities during their initiation rituals. Additionally, the last I checked our troops suffer through extreme temperatures (up to 130F) while having to wear full combat clothing and gear. Most importantly, using these tactics have resulted in significant intelligence that has saved thousand of lives worldwide.

Compare these tactics to the extreme tactics of Saddam and the terrorist including acid baths, amputations, rapes and be-headings, none of which are acceptable torture tactics. Do I endorse this type of torture? Absolutely not.

Since you are reporting on torture by the US and UK where was your rage against these tactics when they were reported? Can you provide a link that shows your outrage, similar to that you report here?

The BBS obviously tried to sway public opinion against the war with this article. Shame on them for using gutter and unacceptable tactics when trying to do so.

I am surprised you (and others) bought into their BS as I thought you were smarter than that. :(

So if you or a loved one of yours was arrested on suspicion, you would be perfectly happy to be tortured or allow them to be tortured, even though this was likely to produce a FALSE admission? How can you claim that torture has saved thousands world wide? A good many are like me, devout cowards and would sing any song to avoid pain.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5322130.stm

War is not a pretty thing. The torture I endorse does no physical harm and is mainly pschological.

So where was your outrage when the torture tactics used by Saddam (rape, dipping in hot oil, amputation.....) were found out?

[Thos]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5322130.stm

War is not a pretty thing. The torture I endorse does no physical harm and is mainly pschological.

So where was your outrage when the torture tactics used by Saddam (rape, dipping in hot oil, amputation.....) were found out?

Whoever suggested that war WAS a pretty thing? Certainly not me.

The concept that psychological torture is somehow acceptable is an anathema to me and I am not a Christian.

I am outraged by Saddam's activities and I supported the action in removing him. Saddam was a classic situation of a man in power using that power wrongly and in contravention of international law. The US and the UK and many others were right, in my view, to intervene, just as they are wrong if they condone torture.

Thos.

[AlanHo]

I must say that I agree with andsome.

[Tankus]

Thomas Crapper "Thars brass ta be made in thar muck !

The worlds greatest designer of vestibules of deep thought ...ever ....!

Ive gotta ask...... Cats ..... Is Doris someone you had the hots fer once .?....was it the way she lent over and clipped your ticket .....................?

[catgate]

Ive gotta ask...... Cats ..... Is Doris someone you had the hots fer once .?....was it the way she lent over and clipped your ticket .....................?

No. Sadly, she was someone who would never let you go all the way. If you tried, she'd tell you where to get off, in no unceretain manner.

[andsome]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5322130.stm

War is not a pretty thing. The torture I endorse does no physical harm and is mainly pschological.

So where was your outrage when the torture tactics used by Saddam (rape, dipping in hot oil, amputation.....) were found out?

Whoever suggested that war WAS a pretty thing? Certainly not me.

The concept that psychological torture is somehow acceptable is an anathema to me and I am not a Christian.

I am outraged by Saddam's activities and I supported the action in removing him. Saddam was a classic situation of a man in power using that power wrongly and in contravention of international law. The US and the UK and many others were right, in my view, to intervene, just as they are wrong if they condone torture.

Thos.

I agree 100% with this statement. I too was appalled at the antics of Saddam and his regime. I was also appalled at whet happened in the former Yugoslavia. I am appalled at whet the United Nations is allowing in Darfor. None of this make torture acceptable. It just goes to show what both Muslims and Christians will accept doesn't it. It appears to me that most of the objectors to this barbarism are atheists.

[catgate]

It just goes to show what both Muslims and Christians will accept doesn't it. It appears to me that most of the objectors to this barbarism are atheists.

In my opinion it also, yet again, proves that religion and politics are opposite sides of the same coin, and they neither have any aim other than gaining and holding onto power.

[andsome]

It just goes to show what both Muslims and Christians will accept doesn't it. It appears to me that most of the objectors to this barbarism are atheists.

In my opinion it also, yet again, proves that religion and politics are opposite sides of the same coin, and they neither have any aim other than gaining and holding onto power.

It is a sad fact that over the years, the church has been responsible for some of the worst instances of torture inflicted upon the population. Since the pope is considered to be infallible, this suggests to me that the church considers that their God fully approves.

I am assuming DW, that should the situation arise as I suggested, that you or one of your loved ones was arrested and falsely charged, you would fully approve of torture, psychological or otherwise, in order to obtain a false confession? By the way, the article did not pertain to psychological torture as you call it, but mentioned just TORTURE. Are your family aware of the fact that you would happily see them tortured in the name of justice to obtain this false confession?

[AlanHo]

The worst torture is that which goes on in the family home.

My late wife used to play Barry Manilow music - when the kids were not playing the most appalling pop at full volume.

It's possibly why I am now a nervous wreck and find it hard to take life seriously.

[catgate]

My late wife used to play Barry Manilow music - when the kids were not playing the most appalling pop at full volume.

My heart goes out to anyone who has been subjected to Barry Manilow.

It was rumoured that he was on the CIA's list of most effective weapons in the fight against drugs. Not only was he an effective torture, but he was also their most effective sniffer. He could pick up the scent of illegal substances, with his nose, at over 200 yds. At 10yds he could pick them up physically with his nose.