I wish the UK would follow this lead.

[trackrat]

My niece just sent me this from the USA.

TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH JOE ARPAIO

HE IS THE MARICOPA ARIZONA COUNTY SHERIFF

AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER

THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY:

Sheriff Joe Arpaio (in Arizona ) who created the "tent city jail":

He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the

inmates for them.

He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away

their weights. Cut off all but "G" movies.

He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county

and city projects.

Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for

discrimination.

He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court

order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again

only let in the Disney channel and the weather channel.

When asked why the weather channel he replied, so they will know

how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs.

He cut off coffee since it has zero nutritional value.

When the inmates complained, he told them, "This isn't the

Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."

He bought Newt Gingrich' lecture series on videotape that he pipes

into the jails.

When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a

Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a

lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place.

More on the Arizona Sheriff:

With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116

degrees just set a new record), the Associated Press reports: About 2,000

inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa

County Jail have been given permission to strip down to their

government-issued pink boxer shorts.

On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up

on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached 138 degrees

inside the week before.

Many were also swathed in wet, pink towels as sweat collected on

their chests and dripped down to their pink socks.

"It feels like we are in a furnace," said James Zanzot, an inmate

who has lived in the tents for 1 year. "It's inhumane."

Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and

long ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna

sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic He said Wednesday that he told all

of the inmates: "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in

tents too, and they have to wear full battle gear, but they didn't commit

any crimes, so shut your damned mouths!"

Way to go, Sheriff! Maybe if all prisons were like this one there

would be a lot less crime and/or repeat offenders. Criminals should be

punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for their

parole, only to go out and commit another crime so they can get back in to

live on taxpayers money and enjoy things taxpayers can't afford to have

for themselves.

If you agree, pass this on. If not, just delete it.

Sheriff Joe was just reelected Sheriff in Maricopa County, Arizona

[catgate]

Sound sensible to me. But who would cut across the wishes of the bleeding heart brigade? Further more would he get a peerage (honorary) at the end of it?

[andsome]

What a brilliant idea. The PC brigade over here would have a ball if this was tried out. It would end up in the European court.

[Thos]

According to catgate, I am one of the "bleeding heart" brigade. According to andsome, I am one of the "PC" brigade because I can not agree that prisoners should be treated inhumanely in that way.

Prison should be tough, probably tougher than we make it at present, but we should not glorify the attitudes of Sheriff Arpaio.

Thos.

[andsome]

Prison for thugs etc should be so tough that they will be scared stiff of causing more trouble and going back in again. Why on earth should the public be expected to pay for their luxuries?

[Thos]

Prison for thugs etc should be so tough that they will be scared stiff of causing more trouble and going back in again. Why on earth should the public be expected to pay for their luxuries?

Chain Gangs?

Thos.

[nellie2]

I thought prison was meant to be a deterrent, not a 'right of passage'. There is one particular person in my town who told his sons that they weren't men until they had spent some time inside!!!!

Perhaps he would think a little differently if he lived in Sheriff Arpaio's town

[rong]

I agree with Thos about the chain gangs as that amounts to slavery, but I probably think the rest is about right. Edit no cable TV though.

[andsome]

I thought prison was meant to be a deterrent, not a 'right of passage'. There is one particular person in my town who told his sons that they weren't men until they had spent some time inside!!!!

Perhaps he would think a little differently if he lived in Sheriff Arpaio's town

Hear hear.

[andsome]

One other thing. I would also like to see remission of sentence for good behaviour abolished. Ten years should mean ten years, and NOT a single day less. Good behaviour should enable a prisoner to get out on time. Bad behaviour should result in extra time being added. If you can't do the time, then don't do the crime. Minor offences such as shop lifting etc should no longer involve the chance of prison, as this clutters up the system. Minor offences should involve FREE public work EVERY day for a suitable period. There is plenty of rubbish to be removed from public places, and parks to be tidied up etc. Petty criminals should be compelled to make the environment better for law abiding citizens.

[catgate]

Chain Gangs?

Thos.

Might it not stop them absconding?

And also make them easier to count? Making the life of the incompetents at the Home Office easier.

It would also do away with the restriction of prison capacities. If there were too many prisoners to be housed in doors they could be left outside on a long chain.

[rong]

Why is shop lifting a minor offence, we have to pay for it every time we buy something in the shops and some people lift thousands of pounds worth of goods a week, I do not see this as a minor offence. Scrumping is a minor offence

[andsome]

Maybe I should have said non violent offences. I believe that prison should be reserved for violent offenders, and should be a LOT less comfortable than it is now.

[catgate]

Scrumping is a minor offence

Scrumping is not an offence ...it is a country tradition.

As far as I can see, putting aside most of Tony's laws, which should be repealed because they are aimed at the prevention free speech and thinking, there should be no difference between minor offences and major offences. It is as foolish as looking at a young girl and saying, "Yes, she's pregnant, but only marginally."

[Thos]

I thought prison was meant to be a deterrent, not a 'right of passage'. There is one particular person in my town who told his sons that they weren't men until they had spent some time inside!!!!

Perhaps he would think a little differently if he lived in Sheriff Arpaio's town

Perhaps some may think I am a little off topic here, but bear with me, please.

Not very long ago, it was considered a crime punishable by a term in prison if anyone was found guilty of homosexuality. (It may still be in Joe Arpaio's neck of the woods for all I know). How we would have improved matters if we had acted in those ways towards those prisoners! They wouldn't have done it again, would they?

As far as non-violent offenders go, what about large scale fraud? Do not the perpetrators deserve prison? Of course they do.

Thos.

[andsome]

I thought prison was meant to be a deterrent, not a 'right of passage'. There is one particular person in my town who told his sons that they weren't men until they had spent some time inside!!!!

Perhaps he would think a little differently if he lived in Sheriff Arpaio's town

Perhaps some may think I am a little off topic here, but bear with me, please.

Not very long ago, it was considered a crime punishable by a term in prison if anyone was found guilty of homosexuality. (It may still be in Joe Arpaio's neck of the woods for all I know). How we would have improved matters if we had acted in those ways towards those prisoners! They wouldn't have done it again, would they?

As far as non-violent offenders go, what about large scale fraud? Do not the perpetrators deserve prison? Of course they do.

Thos.

They would be a lot better employed doing several years VERY VERY hard labour in the community, and with all their ill gotten gains taken away.

[AlanHo]

Perhaps some may think I am a little off topic here, but bear with me, please.

Not very long ago, it was considered a crime punishable by a term in prison if anyone was found guilty of homosexuality. (It may still be in Joe Arpaio's neck of the woods for all I know). How we would have improved matters if we had acted in those ways towards those prisoners! They wouldn't have done it again, would they?

Thos.

I recall that it was a labour government which made homosexuality legal - I was surprised and mighty relieved that they didn't make it compulsory.

[andsome]

I have no argument with peoples choice of sexual orientation. What goes on in private is entirely up to the individuals concerned, and as far as I am concerned has nothing to do with crime etc. I am strictly straight if you want to call it that, but what other people choose is entirely up to themselves.

[catgate]

I recall that it was a labour government which made homosexuality legal - I was surprised and mighty relieved that they didn't make it compulsory.

The thing that is worrying me is that just as TB had Peter Mandelson in his entourage, Gordon Brown may have a sheep farmer or donkey owner in his. Then what???

[Thos]

Sorry. I didn't mean to start a debate on Homosexuality. I meant to point up the inhumanity of treating prisoners in the way the sheriff from Arizona does and just accepting that treatment without consideration of many other things.

Thos.

[Alan2273]

Thos, I think you are totally wrong.

If a person commits a crime, why should he live in better conditions than a law abiding person.

There are many people in this country who cannot afford to heat there homes or have 3 meals a day, but the prisoners get that.

They have television, recreational facilities , gym, educational facilities and they do not have to do a thing to be entitled to these facilities.

All they lose is there freedom.

Prison should be a place for punishment, not a soft option, which the PC and bleeding heart brigade have turned them into.

Perhaps that is why the British jails are full to bursting.

I would lay money that if we followed the lead of the Sherrif in Arizona, there would not be so many people going back into prison again as the soft option would no longer be there.

[Watchful]

What's wrong with chain-gangs? They could come round our way and clean up all the litter and broken glass* and they can't leg-it then can they?

*not to mention stray shopping trolleys.

[andsome]

Thos, I think you are totally wrong.

If a person commits a crime, why should he live in better conditions than a law abiding person.

There are many people in this country who cannot afford to heat there homes or have 3 meals a day, but the prisoners get that.

They have television, recreational facilities , gym, educational facilities and they do not have to do a thing to be entitled to these facilities.

All they lose is there freedom.

Prison should be a place for punishment, not a soft option, which the PC and bleeding heart brigade have turned them into.

Perhaps that is why the British jails are full to bursting.

I would lay money that if we followed the lead of the Sherrif in Arizona, there would not be so many people going back into prison again as the soft option would no longer be there.

What's wrong with chain-gangs? They could come round our way and clean up all the litter and broken glass* and they can't leg-it then can they?

*not to mention stray shopping trolleys.

Well said both.

[Thos]

Somehow I seem to have become the spokesman for the “PC and Bleeding Heart Brigade”. Well so be it, if it means I am the only one to feel that in a civilized society even criminals should be treated humanely. Just for the record, I have no first-hand knowledge of the way prisoners are treated in the UK and whether the options are as soft as the red-top tabloids would have us believe. Nevertheless, prisoners should be properly fed, given exercise and the opportunity for training and learning. The aim should be not solely punishment but also re-habilitation.

As far as Sheriff Joe is concerned, not all is sweetness and light. See here for a different opinion on that gentleman. Even the original opening to the thread brooks no opposition. “If you agree, pass this on. If not just delete it”

I am pleased to see andsome joining the bleeding heart brigade as he feels that the perpetrators of large scale fraud should escape prison. Fraudsters ruin the future of whole families and cause wholesale misery. They deserve incarceration just as much as burglars do.

I find the comparison between those families who are poor and destitute and prisoners very odd (Alan2273’s post above). Surely we would want to lift the poorest living standards rather than depress the standards in prisons to the lowest levels?

There is also an assumption that the harsher the treatment the less re-offending. Where is the long term evidence for this? It is difficult to compare crime rates between the UK and the USA because of different ways of recording, different laws, different judgments and so on. But comparisons within the USA show that Arizona crime is higher than the US national average.

So all-in-all, I personally do not like the Sheriff’s approach.

Thos. (newly promoted Brigadier, PC & BH)

[andsome]

Somehow I seem to have become the spokesman for the “PC and Bleeding Heart Brigade”. Well so be it, if it means I am the only one to feel that in a civilized society even criminals should be treated humanely. Just for the record, I have no first-hand knowledge of the way prisoners are treated in the UK and whether the options are as soft as the red-top tabloids would have us believe. Nevertheless, prisoners should be properly fed, given exercise and the opportunity for training and learning. The aim should be not solely punishment but also re-habilitation.

As far as Sheriff Joe is concerned, not all is sweetness and light. See here for a different opinion on that gentleman. Even the original opening to the thread brooks no opposition. “If you agree, pass this on. If not just delete it”

I am pleased to see andsome joining the bleeding heart brigade as he feels that the perpetrators of large scale fraud should escape prison. Fraudsters ruin the future of whole families and cause wholesale misery. They deserve incarceration just as much as burglars do.

I find the comparison between those families who are poor and destitute and prisoners very odd (Alan2273’s post above). Surely we would want to lift the poorest living standards rather than depress the standards in prisons to the lowest levels?

There is also an assumption that the harsher the treatment the less re-offending. Where is the long term evidence for this? It is difficult to compare crime rates between the UK and the USA because of different ways of recording, different laws, different judgments and so on. But comparisons within the USA show that Arizona crime is higher than the US national average.

So all-in-all, I personally do not like the Sheriff’s approach.

Thos. (newly promoted Brigadier, PC & BH)

My point concerning fraudsters etc, is that they should be made to work, and work damned hard until they drop, to pay back those who have suffered. This could be done in the community with an improved tagging system. Locking these people up with all the amenities that prison offers, is a waste of money. Prison is the best way of keeping violent offenders away from the law abiding, but even then these people should work work and then do more work. Treat prisoners humanely of course, we are after all more civilised than the perpetrators of places like Guantanamo. However, there should be no time for things like TV, sports days etc etc, all the spare time should be taken up with work to repay the debt to society.