Response to Jayno's question

[catgate]

I'm sure Deuces, I and other members would be interested in hearing what you regard as rewarding in life, and, to return to the topic of the thread, your take on retirement.

Well I have just read through what I have written, and, I had I not said I would reply, I would tear it up and forget it all, because it does sound very presumptuous and smug. But it really is as I see it, and although these are feelings that have been with me for as long as I can remember I think I have never really tried to put it all into words before. Anyway for what it is here you are, Jayno.

First of all I see retirement as just part of life and so there is no justification, to my mind, in trying to separate it as though it were a totally new existence. It is just part of the continuum and it will happen at some point in time, just as being 21 will

Now the "rewarding" bit is just as problematical because I do not really think of anything as "rewarding". I can think of many things as "enjoyable" and I do not think they have changed much throughout my life, but rewarding has never really seemed appropriate.

My earliest enjoyments were hiking and camping in the Yorkshire Dales with my teenage pal, (who is now secretary of the Wainright society). We were chums for years until marriage and the serious matter of earning a crust caused us to go down our separate paths. I still visit the Dales and enjoy them if anything even more, maybe because visits are not not just as regular as they used to be.

An enjoyment that started in the same era is motorcycles and motorcycling. I got my first one (a 193? Rudge 500 Special, with hand change, a few weeks before my 17th birthday) In the ensuing 58 years I have had all manner of bikes. Not the go-like-hell cafe-racer types but rather the touring sort. About two years ago due to a nasty deterioration in the condition of the ulcers on my ankles I was convinced my riding days were over and so I said goodbye to a couple of BMWs that I had had for over twenty years . The grand old lady, an R100RT tourer had taken management and I all over the UK, Ireland, and Europe, but she and the other, an R80, went to good homes (2 nephews). Happily my ankles have allowed me to think again, and I am just in the process of completing a rebuild on a Honda tourer. (Management is almost as chuffed as I am!) Hopefully we will revisit the dales in the correct way to appreciate them...on two wheels ...immersed in the ambience and not separated from it by metal and glass on four wheels.

I also enjoy being self sufficient in most aspects of life, I have rebuilt motor cycles from boxes of junk, I have built two cars from scratch (engines and gearboxes excepted ), I have done all my own plumbing, joinering, electrical work, building etc. I even built a granny flat, to house my mother and father (so we could keep an eye on them in their old age), and a garage/workshop block onto the old farm house we used to have.

Now this is where we come to the crux of the "obligation" matter. Although I consider myself as a capable individual in many areas and facets of life I would have been able to do nothing if it had not been for the help of others who knew how to do these things and who have been kind enough to show me "how". I am eternally grateful to them.

I feel I must have been encouraged by my parent to have an "enquiring mind". I was never pushed that way, though there were always "interesting" books about the house. I do remember them buying Arthur Mee's "Children's Encyclopaedia" when I was only about 7. I nearly read the print off it.

I was also fortunate in that a good number of the teachers that I had throughout my school and college days had the knack, either knowingly or unknowingly, of teaching me "how " to learn rather than teaching me just bald facts to be remembered in order to pass exams. I am eternally grateful to them, because I am certain that my true learning started after completing my academic education.

In the days before DIY became the money spinner it is today I realised that I had two hands just like all the joiners and plumber etc, and I had a brain just like all the brickies and motor mechanics, and therefore there was no reason why I should not be able to do things for myself to my own quality standards. Again I was helped enormously by people who "knew" and were only too happy to tell me "how". I am eternally grateful to them all.

I have been fortunate enough to come across a variety of people with various ideas and teachings about life and all it entails. Through them I have looked at Buddhism, Sufism, Islam and of course the various Christian schools. The only problem I have now with religion is to know whether I am Agnostic or Atheist. I am eternally grateful to them.

I have been helped in so many ways by so many people. This forum is just another example.

There is no way I can personally repay all those people who helped me, some of whom have become lifelong friends, but I can put back into society some of the help I have received. That help takes various forms. Some of it is actually rewiring Mrs Jones' table lamp, showing a neighbour how to fit his central heating boiler, making my farmer neighbour a new sink unit for his dairy, helping the local people with defending the area against outrageous planning applications etc. Other bits are passing on information to some of the young people who are just starting to "learn" (although this does need to be done only on request).

I enjoy each one of these "helps", when the task is completed, and although I may not enjoy doing it, it is nice to see the pleasure on the others face. The joy on the face of the young chap from the village when I was able to substitute for a couple of pounds (and a lot of fiddling about) the electronic ignition that the garage had said was only repairable by an £85 replacement was beyond price, and he learned something on the way.

All this I look upon as "obligation", and to some extent a repayment of my debt to others, but it does sometimes become more of a duty and an interference than a source of enjoyment, particularly as things change. Things such as the floor is now much farther away than it used to be, nuts and bolt have threads that are much more "blurred" than they were and things generally seem to take a delight in just vanishing into thin air and then reappearing just when you have cursed them heartily and got another one out.

As far as retirement is concerned I was lucky to have been able to take early retirement about 20 years ago but it changed my outlook on life little, because, although I was remunerated by my company, being Quality Assurance and Technical Services Manager meant that the main thrust of my work was towards ensuring the welfare of the public. I was helping them. So on retirement I just swapped "the general public" for a few more nearer home.

One of the big things that I have learned is how little I know of anything really worthwhile. I must not have found he right person for that yet.

[deuces wild]

I'm sure Deuces, I and other members would be interested in hearing what you regard as rewarding in life, and, to return to the topic of the thread, your take on retirement.

Well I have just read through what I have written, and, I had I not said I would reply, I would tear it up and forget it all, because it does sound very presumptuous and smug. But it really is as I see it, and although these are feelings that have been with me for as long as I can remember I think I have never really tried to put it all into words before. Anyway for what it is here you are, Jayno.

First of all I see retirement as just part of life and so there is no justification, to my mind, in trying to separate it as though it were a totally new existence. It is just part of the continuum and it will happen at some point in time, just as being 21 will

Now the "rewarding" bit is just as problematical because I do not really think of anything as "rewarding". I can think of many things as "enjoyable" and I do not think they have changed much throughout my life, but rewarding has never really seemed appropriate.

My earliest enjoyments were hiking and camping in the Yorkshire Dales with my teenage pal, (who is now secretary of the Wainright society). We were chums for years until marriage and the serious matter of earning a crust caused us to go down our separate paths. I still visit the Dales and enjoy them if anything even more, maybe because visits are not not just as regular as they used to be.

An enjoyment that started in the same era is motorcycles and motorcycling. I got my first one (a 193? Rudge 500 Special, with hand change, a few weeks before my 17th birthday) In the ensuing 58 years I have had all manner of bikes. Not the go-like-hell cafe-racer types but rather the touring sort. About two years ago due to a nasty deterioration in the condition of the ulcers on my ankles I was convinced my riding days were over and so I said goodbye to a couple of BMWs that I had had for over twenty years . The grand old lady, an R100RT tourer had taken management and I all over the UK, Ireland, and Europe, but she and the other, an R80, went to good homes (2 nephews). Happily my ankles have allowed me to think again, and I am just in the process of completing a rebuild on a Honda tourer. (Management is almost as chuffed as I am!) Hopefully we will revisit the dales in the correct way to appreciate them...on two wheels ...immersed in the ambience and not separated from it by metal and glass on four wheels.

I also enjoy being self sufficient in most aspects of life, I have rebuilt motor cycles from boxes of junk, I have built two cars from scratch (engines and gearboxes excepted ), I have done all my own plumbing, joinering, electrical work, building etc. I even built a granny flat, to house my mother and father (so we could keep an eye on them in their old age), and a garage/workshop block onto the old farm house we used to have.

Now this is where we come to the crux of the "obligation" matter. Although I consider myself as a capable individual in many areas and facets of life I would have been able to do nothing if it had not been for the help of others who knew how to do these things and who have been kind enough to show me "how". I am eternally grateful to them.

I feel I must have been encouraged by my parent to have an "enquiring mind". I was never pushed that way, though there were always "interesting" books about the house. I do remember them buying Arthur Mee's "Children's Encyclopaedia" when I was only about 7. I nearly read the print off it.

I was also fortunate in that a good number of the teachers that I had throughout my school and college days had the knack, either knowingly or unknowingly, of teaching me "how " to learn rather than teaching me just bald facts to be remembered in order to pass exams. I am eternally grateful to them, because I am certain that my true learning started after completing my academic education.

In the days before DIY became the money spinner it is today I realised that I had two hands just like all the joiners and plumber etc, and I had a brain just like all the brickies and motor mechanics, and therefore there was no reason why I should not be able to do things for myself to my own quality standards. Again I was helped enormously by people who "knew" and were only too happy to tell me "how". I am eternally grateful to them all.

I have been fortunate enough to come across a variety of people with various ideas and teachings about life and all it entails. Through them I have looked at Buddhism, Sufism, Islam and of course the various Christian schools. The only problem I have now with religion is to know whether I am Agnostic or Atheist. I am eternally grateful to them.

I have been helped in so many ways by so many people. This forum is just another example.

There is no way I can personally repay all those people who helped me, some of whom have become lifelong friends, but I can put back into society some of the help I have received. That help takes various forms. Some of it is actually rewiring Mrs Jones' table lamp, showing a neighbour how to fit his central heating boiler, making my farmer neighbour a new sink unit for his dairy, helping the local people with defending the area against outrageous planning applications etc. Other bits are passing on information to some of the young people who are just starting to "learn" (although this does need to be done only on request).

I enjoy each one of these "helps", when the task is completed, and although I may not enjoy doing it, it is nice to see the pleasure on the others face. The joy on the face of the young chap from the village when I was able to substitute for a couple of pounds (and a lot of fiddling about) the electronic ignition that the garage had said was only repairable by an £85 replacement was beyond price, and he learned something on the way.

All this I look upon as "obligation", and to some extent a repayment of my debt to others, but it does sometimes become more of a duty and an interference than a source of enjoyment, particularly as things change. Things such as the floor is now much farther away than it used to be, nuts and bolt have threads that are much more "blurred" than they were and things generally seem to take a delight in just vanishing into thin air and then reappearing just when you have cursed them heartily and got another one out.

As far as retirement is concerned I was lucky to have been able to take early retirement about 20 years ago but it changed my outlook on life little, because, although I was remunerated by my company, being Quality Assurance and Technical Services Manager meant that the main thrust of my work was towards ensuring the welfare of the public. I was helping them. So on retirement I just swapped "the general public" for a few more nearer home.

One of the big things that I have learned is how little I know of anything really worthwhile. I must not have found he right person for that yet.

[catgate]

Yes, I think that is most apposite.

[Watchful]

I don't know what Jayno's question was but I think the summary of your life is very apt and makes perfect sense.

I wish my husband could see it that way, retirement as just another phase in life, instead of a sort of useless time. Unlike yourself, he never mastered the arts of DIY but I'm sure he could if he had your attitude.

I applaud your attitude

[andsome]

Retirement is never useless time. I thoroughly enjoy it. In the summer I play four league bowls matches a week. We go out for cheap lunches with friends. We go for walks on nice days, and keep the garden nice. It's always a treat to have the grandchildren over for a few days, and we are collecting them both tomorrow. We generally do what we want when we want to do it. It knocks spots off getting involved in the much dreaded W word. Kick his backside for him and tell him that the alternative is always there if he want it, it's called 'being dead'. :D

[artist]

Well put, catgate. I always enjoy reading you take on life and find I totally agree with lots of it.

Everyone has the option of taking life and making the most of it, whatever you circumstances, or letting life pass by.

[Gandalph]

Hear Hear catgate. Very well put and a thoroughly good read.

[AlanHo]

Super duper read catgate - an excellent expression of the talents and traumas of a talented chap.

I have a suggestion for you regarding your DIY biking activities - should you not be converting the Honda to a trike, get a few tatoos and grow a ponytail (if you have not already got them). I have some old army boots and camouflage trousers you can have. (But finding the camouflage trousers might take some time - they blend into the wardrobe)

[andsome]

Super duper read catgate - an excellent expression of the talents and traumas of a talented chap.

I have a suggestion for you regarding your DIY biking activities - should you not be converting the Honda to a trike, get a few tatoos and grow a ponytail (if you have not already got them). I have some old army boots and camouflage trousers you can have. (But finding the camouflage trousers might take some time - they blend into the wardrobe)

Must be a funny coloured wardrobe. :lol:

[Watchful]

Super duper read catgate - an excellent expression of the talents and traumas of a talented chap.

I have a suggestion for you regarding your DIY biking activities - should you not be converting the Honda to a trike, get a few tatoos and grow a ponytail (if you have not already got them). I have some old army boots and camouflage trousers you can have. (But finding the camouflage trousers might take some time - they blend into the wardrobe)

That's an excellent idea! You could be describing a fellow we see at our local supermarket :lol:

[artist]

Super duper read catgate - an excellent expression of the talents and traumas of a talented chap.

I have a suggestion for you regarding your DIY biking activities - should you not be converting the Honda to a trike, get a few tatoos and grow a ponytail (if you have not already got them). I have some old army boots and camouflage trousers you can have. (But finding the camouflage trousers might take some time - they blend into the wardrobe)

Yes, do that catgate - I'll be there in a flash. My ambition is to get a ride on one of those.........I'll grow me hair long and make it grey and frizzy - it'll look good flowing from the crash helmet. I'll borrow some leathers.....

:D

[rong]

Yes, do that catgate - I'll be there in a flash. My ambition is to get a ride on one of those.........I'll grow me hair long and make it grey and frizzy - it'll look good flowing from the crash helmet. I'll borrow some leathers.....

:D

Someone's heart will never stand up to this picture you will have placed in his mind

[catgate]

I have a suggestion for you regarding your DIY biking activities - should you not be converting the Honda to a trike, get a few tatoos

Funnily enough after I gave away my BMWs I bought a second hand geriatrics's three wheeled scooter (things were looking so bad). One day whilst I was pondering about things I was hit with the thought of trying to make a small three wheeled scooter that was powerful enough to go at normal road speeds with two up.

I eventually came up with a design for one that would do all I wanted, and would also "bank" into corners. This has always seemed to me to be the bugbear of threewheeler. (Management had the sidecar wheel lift on her when she was learning on an old Triumph Speedtwin outfit I put together for her).

I gathered together most of what I wanted for the job..... a small diff. unit with driveshafts etc. lots of bearings. two rear swinging fork assemblies, many yards of Reyolds 531 tubing and a "mental" working drawing. I started laying things out on the bench to get an idea of the physical size of the engine and gearbox I needed. I already new it wanted to be a watercooled two stroke of 400 cc or over with electric start. When I had got the general idea of what I needed I went looking for one, "there were plenty about not so long ago".

It seems that "not so long ago" was longer ago than I was thinking, and all the manufacturers have gone of larger twostroke engines in a big way. Never the less I am still looking, because the day will certainly come when the Honda will have to follow the BMs,

Sadly the pony tail is a no-no. Not for aesthetic reasons but simply because Prince Charles and I have the same sort of haircut!!! One with a hole in the back,

[Jayno]

Well Cat!

I have to say I think you responded to my question not just with candour but with a good deal of 'anti-bleak' panache! You seem to have left Deuces impressed (or at least speechless) and you have prompted warm and funny remarks from many other members. Like them, I found your response most interesting and enjoyable reading - thankyou for making the effort to write it.

I must say I feel quite a kinship with you and many parallels, having myself come from humble origins, yet followed an untypical course of largely self-driven education, to emerge, I think I can say, as a thinking person who has also always worked well with his hands.

I can't say I am as talented in design and build as you sound to be, but like you, I too built a complete car (only one) many years ago. It was what they used to call a "Ford Special", based on a wrecked E93A Ford Anglia (the old "sit up and beg"), whose wheels, chassis and suspension I altered, before fitting a 'Falcon Caribbean' fibreglass bodyshell to it. I built my own car flooring, boot and bulkhead, engineered its steering wheel, dashboard and gearbox housing well from aluminium, and (with help) devised the complete wiring system for the car. I also converted the gearbox cogset to 3-speed close ratio, and modified and tuned the entire engine, carburation and exhaust sytems. It took me 6 months to do the mechanical stuff but over two years to do the rest. I was partly disabled by arthritis, so I had to work slowly.

I am too, a motorcyclist - or was, twice. First in the days of Beezers, Ariels and the like. Then again over the last 15 years with a Moto Guzzi, a Yamaha TDM850 and now a BMW R1100R. The Boxer actually sits in the garage as I haven't used it for 3 years! I bought a house in France 4 years ago and then an old Citroen estate to do the ferrying of tools and materials I needed to do it up, between here in the UK and there (in Gascony). This also meant my wife and I didn't need to share the other car (a Honda Prelude - amazing piece of engineering) and I could be 4-wheel lazy in the winter. Now I'm 60 years of age, I don't know whether I should accept the warnings of age-reduced ability to concentrate etc and sell the BM or what? Maybe I should do the three wheel thing?! But definitely no chance of pony tail with me - I have more than patch-baldness!

You talk about your religious questing. Here again there's a degree of parallel as my first degree was a triple honours in Politics, History and Religion. I was originally wanting to choose Philosophy for the third element rather than Religion, but at the time I decided the degree programme in English philosophy on offer was just boring linguistics and positive logic stuff. I wanted to figure out what for me were then (and I must say still are) the main questions in life: Not why I am here? But given that I am, how do I want to be and what actions do I want to take? As a convinced atheist, my questing took me rapidly past Christianity (though I do quite like Jesus) and the I-Thou world views and (perhaps typically of my age) into the Eastern world views. I could relate to the logical proposition that if there is only one truth, how can there be another? So whatever the truth is, we are all it. Forget all the dualistic, I-Thou, God stuff, go with the monistic line, listen to the mystics - start where the ancient Indians started, with the famous statement: "Tat Twam Asi" (That Thou Art). I could go on, but won't - suffice to say, I regard myself as "spiritual" in the sense of regarding Being, and its consciousness, as divine, and this governs my approach to all my values and actions.

There are other things your post triggers for discussion but reality has just kicked in - or rather, kicked me. My wife wants me to get cracking as we are going to see a late film about jewish counterfeiters being forced to work under the Nazi's. Phew!

See ya later

J

B)