Katrina Aftermath - Your help is needed

[deuces wild]

Things continue to get worse in the aftermath of Katrina. Over 1/2 million folks stranded in the city of New Orleans alone. The power (and water) may out out in New Orleans until the end of the year. No place to buy water or food. 80% of the city is under water, with the water containing dead bodies and human waste from the sewage treatment plants. It may take months to pump the water out of the city. Then comes months of cleanup.

Similar themes in other Louisiana and Mississippi cities. No one knows how many people died and the tally may not be known for months.

95 percent of U.S. oil and natural gas production in the Gulf of Mexico and nine refineries along the coast remained shut down.

Please contribute to the Red Cross. This is perhaps the worst natural disaster ever seen by mankind.

http://www.redcross.org/

[Alan2273]

The link is only set up for donations from America.

[nellie2]

Hi deuces.

I've just been watching some updates on the breakfast news here. The devastation caused is truly awful... all those poor people.

They say that it could take weeks to get to everyone, not only were houses flattened but roads and bridges were damaged too.

I've never been to New Orleans but I know it is a beautiful city... the people of that city are in my thoughts right now.

For my part, I've only ever seen one hurricane and that was the one that flattened the South of England some years ago.... we didn't get it too bad where I live. And it was nowhere near as awful as Katrina, so living through something like that is difficult for me to comprehend, even though the media show me the images. :(

[-pops-]

I truly have every sympathy with the people suffering as a result of the Katrina disater but any meagre monetary contribution I may make would be but a single molecule in the universe of the huge coffer that is the United States of America.

What the Southern States need more than anything at this time is manpower to help clear the mess and expertise (as has been suggested elsewhere) in dealing with the human suffering now being experienced. The knowldge gained from dealing with the aftermath of the recent Tsunami would be helpful.

[artist]

I can only imagine how desperately awful it must be to lose everything - over and over in some cases. I would imagine it's nigh on impossible to get those houses in those areas insured?

[The Grump]

This is perhaps the worst natural disaster ever seen by mankind.

May I remind you of the Tsunami that hit the Indian Ocean on 26 December 2004.

[-pops-]

- - -and as I intimated - it is muscle, not money, that is the priority. (Muscle in its widest sense of knowledgeable, expert people helping in the rescue and recovery of these unfortunates).

[deuces wild]

Thanks folks.

= the tsunami.... you are correct. I should have said it is the worst natural disaster in America.

Any donation, no matter how small, will help.

[nellie2]

This topic has been pruned and edited to keep it on track and so as not to divert attention from the terrible happenings that have affected the people of New Orleans. More news reports available here

When posting to threads, please keep in mind our guidelines, in particular no.s 3 and 4

Nel

[andsome]

Everything that I have said in this topic has been removed. I have had no correspondence concerning this at all. Things did get off topic and I am sorry for that, so will try to stay on topic in this posting.

As I said, as the richest country in the world is is sad that to date America has by all appearances been very slow off the mark with assistance. How many troops are still in barracks, and why aren't they already on the scene? Where are all the lorries and aircraft laden with food? Where is all the heavy machinery? I don't know how critical the American media have been allowed to be, but certainly in the UK we are seeing scenes of increasing anger and frustration with the administration. This hurricane was forecast well in advance, why weren't rescue and aid services on stand by? These people need help NOW, not when committees have discussed the matter. Certainly, cash aid is NOT needed from the rest of the world. I send all my donations to nations that are not able to help themselves. For pity's sake why don't the authorities in the US get moving, platitudes do not help, but food, water, medical supplies, heavy machinery, and troops etc do.

I hope that this posting has not transgressed, but someone over there needs a damned good shaking up.

[deuces wild]

The purpose of my initial post to this thread was to bring a tremendous disaster to your attention and ask for you to consider a donation to help in the relief efforts.

I did not bring it up to lay blame. I did not bring it up to discuss the war in Iraq. I did not bring it up to compare the riches of America to Sri Lanka or even Great Britain. None of those things have any revelance to the tragedy at hand.

Yet that seems to be the continued focus here for some of you folks. So here are some things to consider for those of you wishing to lay blame to someone or something on this horrific tragedy.

New Orleans was hit hard by the hurricane but things continued to get worst for days following it. Passage to/from the city was next to impossible because of the flooding, debris and silt, which unlike the tsunami, does not receed. New Orleans is a city in bowl 20 feet below sea level.

Initial efforts were dedicated to search and rescue, not to provide food, water and shelter.

The governor of LA and mayor of New Orleans were not prepared. The onus was on them to make sure the city was evacuated and that plans were in place to effectively address the aftermath.

For those wanting to blame the Bush administration (and I am not saying they acted prudently) also consider these facts:

February 17, 1995

An Army Corps of Engineers "hit list" of recommended budget cuts would

eliminate new flood-control programs in some of the nation's most

flood-prone spots - where recent disasters have left thousands

homeless and cost the federal government millions in emergency aid.

Clinton administration officials argue that the flood-control efforts

are local projects, not national, and should be paid for by local

taxes.

Nationwide, the administration proposes cutting 98 new projects in 35

states and Puerto Rico, for an estimated savings of $29 million in

1996.

Corps officials freely conceded the cuts, which represent only a small

portion of savings the corps ultimately must make, may be penny-wise

and pound-foolish. But they said they were forced to eliminate some

services the corps has historically provided to taxpayers to meet the

administration's budget-cutting goals.

June 23, 1995

A hurricane project, approved and financed since 1965, to protect more

than 140,000 West Bank residents east of the Harvey Canal is in

jeopardy.

The Clinton administration is holding back a Corps of Engineers report

recommending that the $120 million project proceed. Unless that report

is forwarded to the Office of Management and Budget, Congress cannot

authorize money for the project, U.S. Rep. William Jefferson's office

said Thursday.

On June 9, John Zirschky, the acting assistant secretary of the Army

and the official who refused to forward the report, sent a memo to the

corps, saying the recommendation for the project "is not consistent

with the policies and budget priorities reflected in the President's

Fiscal Year 1996 budget. Accordingly, I will not forward the report to

the Office of Management and Budget for clearance."

July 26, 1996

The House voted Thursday for a $19.4 billion energy and water bill

that provides $246 million for Army Corps of Engineers projects in

Louisiana.

The bill, approved 391-23, is the last of the 13 annual spending

measures for 1997 approved by the House.

One area in which the House approved more financing than the president

requested was for flood control and maintenance of harbors and

shipping routes by the Army Corps of Engineers.

Flood control projects along the Mississippi River and its tributaries

were allotted $303 million, or $10 million more than the president

wanted.

June 19, 1996

The Army Corps of Engineers, which builds most flood protection levees

on a federal-local cost-sharing basis, uses a cost-benefit ratio to

justify a project. If the cost of building a levee is considered less

than the cost of restoring a flood-ravaged area, the project is more

likely to be approved.

For years, the Jean Lafitte-Lower Lafitte-Barataria-Crown Point areas

couldn't convince the corps they were worthy of levee protection. But

the use of Section 205 and congressional pressure has given the corps

a new perspective, Spohrer said.

But even so, when the Clinton administration began to curtail spending

on flood control and other projects a year ago, the corps stopped

spending on Section 205 projects even after deciding to do a $70,000

preliminary Jean Lafitte study, Spohrer said.

July 22, 1999

In passing a $20.2 billion spending bill this week for water and

energy projects, the House Appropriations Committee approved some

significant increases in financing for several New Orleans area flood

control and navigational projects.

The spending bill is expected on the House floor within the next two

weeks.

For the New Orleans District of the Army Corps of Engineers, the panel

allocated $106 million for construction projects, about $16 million

more than proposed by President Clinton.

The bill would provide $47 million for "southeast Louisiana flood

control projects," $16 million for "Lake Pontchartrain and vicinity

hurricane protection," $15.9 million for the Inner Harbor Navigation

Canal Lock on the Industrial Canal in New Orleans and $2 million for

"West Bank hurricane protection -- from New Orleans to Venice."

Most of the projects received significant increases over what the

Clinton administration had proposed. The exception: general flood

control projects for southeast Louisiana, which remained at the $47

million suggested by Clinton. Local officials had hoped for double

that amount."

From:

http://eurota.blogspot.com/2005/09/us-left...ched-every.html

Yep, plenty of blame to go around folks. However that will solve nothing at this stage of the game., espeically considering that all the dead have not been found and counted.

In the end let's hope we learn a lesson from it instead of just finger pointing.

Let's also hope a disaster to this magnitude does not happen in the UK. If it does however I can bet no-one here in the States will say "They are a rich Country....let them deal with it on their own."

[Scarecrow Man]

I agree with some of your points andsome, that they SHOULD have had relief waiting before the storm hit. When it did strike, they could have provided immidiate help. This could have been handled better, but that does not bring someones son or daughter home, but laying blame does not either. Even the "richest" need help. Just because they are wealthy does not mean they can raise the dead. The US suffered a great loss, as does everyone who is victim of a natural disaster. Notice the word Natural. They did not ask to be hit by a hurricane, but they are now asking for help. Will you turn your back on them?

[expertec]

On a side note, I think this image is particularly striking, (more so than all the pictures of the people and their suffering even) I don't think I'll ever forget it:

(BBC News)

The people and their sandbags are like nothing compared to the water.

:mellow:

[Thos]

Yes, expertec, you are right.

American engineers have done some incredible things in the past (viz. the intracoastal waterway) but they have their hands full trying to restore New Orleans to be a livable city, if they ever do.

Thos.

[andsome]

I don't honestly think that not sending cash to the richest country in the world can be construed as turning ones back. America has more than enough of that, and other countries need it more. The point that I am trying to put across is that with all the military personnel in that country, and all the wealth, why on earth has so very little been done yet to help the suffering people?

[Thos]

I don't honestly think that not sending cash to the richest country in the world can be construed as turning ones back.  America has more than enough of that, and other countries need it more.  The point that I am trying top put across is that with all the military personnel in that country, and all the wealth, why on earth has so very little been done yet to help the suffering people?

Mistakes have been made. Today President Bush admitted it.

Thos.

[Scarecrow Man]

Support does not have to be shown with a dollar sign. It can be shown with a helping hand.

[-pops-]

Support does not have to be shown with a dollar sign. It can be shown with a helping hand.

Which is the main point I made much further up this thread. I am certain there are many, many people in the UK and Europe - even the rest of the world - who would be only too willing to offer themselves in the rescue of both lives and everything else. A number of them will be expert in this work.

All it requires is a request from the USA.

[scuzzman]

It is true that this is a great tragedy, and is not going to be forgotten. There are talks now of not even rebuilding New Orleans...

While it's true that physical assistance would help more than anything monetary, the money goes not to getting people out, but to making sure people survive. The Red Cross is not accepting donations of material posessions, only monetary donations, because during times of crisis, so much stuff ends up missing and sold on the black market. The money will be going to buying food/water/shelter for people, as Louisiana and Texas are quickly running out of these things (especially shelter).

Also, about the administration: Bush has reacted to this situation much better than some of you believe or have been shown by your media. The local and state governments of Louisiana are the ones who have really dropped the ball here. 1) by not being proactive, and 2) by not really being reactive. They've simply asked for help and blamed the national government for not reacting quickly enough, when Louisiana's national guard isn't even mobilized (although several other state's guards are). In my opinion, and this is going to sound odd coming from me, Bush is handling this issue very well, and is doing all he can to help these people.

[deuces wild]

The UK has always stood with us and we appreciate the outpouring of financial help folks in the UK and across Europe have given.

Also, about the administration: Bush has reacted to this situation much better than some of you believe or have been shown by your media. The local and state governments of Louisiana are the ones who have really dropped the ball here. 1) by not being proactive, and 2) by not really being reactive. They've simply asked for help and blamed the national government for not reacting quickly enough, when Louisiana's national guard isn't even mobilized (although several other state's guards are). In my opinion, and this is going to sound odd coming from me, Bush is handling this issue very well, and is doing all he can to help these people.

Well said.

May I also add that all the school and city busses were left parked in the city are are now trash. They could have been used to help evacuate the folks who do not have transportation or the means to evacuate the city prior to the storm.

http://tinyurl.com/c6sa2

But as I said earlier, the finger pointing can wait. What needs to be done is to feed and shelter the refugees, bring order to the city and to start the clean up.

Some of the efforts by folks in Houston, Dallas and New Orleans are nothing short of miraculous. Nurses carrying patients in the city hospital down 7 flghts of stairs. Hospital staffing working 20 hour days. Doctors, nurses and police deciding to stay when they could have easily have left prior to the storm but deciding to stay to help.

There are so many heroes that need to be recognized. Unfortunately we see only the bad news on US news stations.

edit: added link to flooded school busses

[andsome]

At last, five days after the disaster, the first aid has arrived. I have just seen it on TV news. More is now on its way. There will be a lot of very relieved people in that area.

Aid at last

[Robbers Dog]

Bush is handling this issue very well, and is doing all he can to help these people.

He didn't break his holiday in Texas till Wednesday.

A third world reaction from the world's only super power.

[nellie2]

I really think that the American people and those affected are the best placed to comment on this issue.

Here are some letters from those who are affected by Katrina BBC News talking point

[andsome]

I am just glad that the aid hes started to arrive at last. I have been criticised for criticising the American governments response to this crisis. A lot in Nellie's link was also very critical. Here are some more American responses.

More American response

[Robbers Dog]

I really think that the American people and those affected are the best placed to comment on this issue.

I don't think this is true. What you are implying is that we should not voice our opinions on anything that we are not directly involved in. ie: Iraq, Israel etc: