Elections

[Thos]

I am sure it will not have escaped members' notice that there is an important world event next week when the US goes to the polls to elect their Senate and House of Representatives. The outcome will affect, among other things, the war in Iraq. If the Republicans do well their stance will be confirmed and Rumsfeld will be in post until the end of the Bush presidency, in spite of the mismanagement of the war and it's aftermath.

On the other hand, if the Democrats do well, we may see a change and get what might be a decent outcome to that war.

Thos.

[AlanHo]

I cannot imagine how anyone can now organise a decent outcome to the war - things have escalated too far and sectarian violence is on the cusp of becoming civil war.

From what I have read on the web - the Democrats stand a very good chance of usurping the Republicans in both houses. If so - Bush will become a lame duck president and US policy will drown in a sea of dissent.

It is all very worrying.

I bet the Iranians and Koreans are well chuffed.

[andsome]

Bush and B'liar have been a good pair together. Master and pet poodle. :)

[trackrat]

Looking at it logically, the Iraq war has cost Blair a lot of votes and perhaps it will do the same to Bush.

I personally think the way we were coerced into this war with a pack of misleading intelligence was wrong.

Perhaps the Americans are now coming round to that way of thinking or is it the body count from this war that is swaying there way of thinking?.

[catgate]

The thing I find very sad it that although Saddam will get his comeupance, B & B, who have killed more people than Saddam did, will possibly escape their due retribution.

edit:- just to put a comma or two in the right places.

[CurlyWhirly]

Looking at it logically, the Iraq war has cost Blair a lot of votes and perhaps it will do the same to Bush.

I personally think the way we were coerced into this war with a pack of misleading intelligence was wrong.

I totally agree as there were never any 'weapons of mass destruction' in the first place and IMHO it was just an excuse to go to war.

The only good thing to have come out of it is Saddam Hussein's recent death sentence for alleged war crimes against his own people.

[deuces wild]

I totally agree as there were never any 'weapons of mass destruction' in the first place and IMHO it was just an excuse to go to war.

"After three years of shrieks that Saddam had no WMD programs of

significance, it's fascinating to learn that the New York Times now believes

there actually was such a program, and that it was within a year of being

able to produce a nuclear weapon."

http://tinyurl.com/yfdxor

"The Times is becoming more and more partisan with each passing day. They want to say, 'President Bush allowed sensitive documents to be posted for all to see which could help Iran create a nuclear bomb, but those sensitive Iraqi documents could not have helped Iraq build a nuclear bomb,'" said Francis.

"But analyzing their story indicates a strong possibility that Iraq was on the verge of building an atomic bomb," he said. "

http://tinyurl.com/yexnax

A year away from having a nuclear bomb. I would certainly say that nuclear bombs are weapons of mass destruction.........eh? ;)

[CurlyWhirly]

A year away from having a nuclear bomb. I would certainly say that nuclear bombs are weapons of mass destruction.........eh? ;)

Yes but those links are just rumour and speculation as no real evidence was found ;)

[deuces wild]

Whatever.

If you don't think that taking out Saddam was not a good thing for the world......then keep on believing it as his own people just found him guilty of murder and other crimes.

But since you ask.............

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jun2006/20060629_5547.html

Regardless, the vast quantity of WOMD were obviously moved to Iran and Syria, the sources of the terrorists crossing the border to fight the troops in Iraq.

So..........do you remember the Axis of Evil speech by Bush several years ago? Don't you see it all coming together now?

These folks want you, your family, your friends and all the people you know...........dead.

Keep focussing on the WOMD................the US and our allies choose to keep focussed on the real problem and protect your back. ;)

[Thos]

I personaly do think it a "good thing" (shades of 1066 and all that!) that Saddam was taken out. But the aftermath of the war has been mismanaged. Ultimately the rsponsibility for this lies with the leaders, but largely the advice was given by Donald Rumsfeld and the passing of time is showing that many things could and should have been done differently.

Thos.

[The Grump]

Because large stockpiles were not found does not mean they were not there. They are most likely in Syria now.

So DW, you know more than the Iraq Survey Group, set up by Bush to find WMD's. :lol:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5042501554.html

DW is still peddling the WOMD in Syria card, even I year on from this!!!!

[CurlyWhirly]

If you don't think that taking out Saddam was not a good thing for the world......then keep on believing it as his own people just found him guilty of murder and other crimes.

On the contrary I do think (like most people do) that it was a good idea to depose him from power and it's good news that he has been found guilty of crimes against his own people and subsequently sentenced for hanging but my objection to the Iraq war is that it was launched because he was supposed to possess WMD.

This has now been shown to be untrue and as Blair also made the mistake of taking us into the war, he will suffer at the next election as a lot of people in the UK feel 'betrayed' by him including me.

[deuces wild]

http://www.theotheriraq.com/

[Thos]

This has now been shown to be untrue and as Blair also made the mistake of taking us into the war, he will suffer at the next election as a lot of people in the UK feel 'betrayed' by him including me.

Although you are right that the possession of WMD has, in my view, clearly been shown to be wrong, it is by no means accepted that it was a mistake to go to war in Iraq. Though I have no doubt my opinion is a minority one in this forum, I believe that the advice from the intelligence services was the key thing which led to the decision. And I mean all the intelligence, not just those in the UK. I am afraid that the evedence which emerged from Saddam's trial supports the view that his regime had to be overturned.

Nevertheless, there have been mistakes in not forseeing the insurgency, not using enough troops and not having an intelligent post war plan.

Thos.

http://www.theotheriraq.com/

Whilst I respect your opinions, I find this constant direction to other peoples (exteremly biased) views via links to be time consuming and add little to the debate. They have their own axes to grind.

Thos.

[deuces wild]

*Biased* views? Did you actually read the site I posted a link to? Do you know whose site that is?

[Thos]

Yes, the Official Investment site for Kurdistan. I can read, you know. And that is missing the point. I would prefer to listen to your views not those of others, even if they co-incide. Otherwise belonging and contributing to a forum is just a waste of time.

Thos.

[Gandalph]

This has now been shown to be untrue and as Blair also made the mistake of taking us into the war, he will suffer at the next election as a lot of people in the UK feel 'betrayed' by him including me.

It's not B'liar that will suffer at the next elections as he is not standing. I think he is standing down because he knows that he would not be elected even if he did stand. The trouble is now that the act of the Invasion of Iraq has happened, it will be the Labour Party that will suffer as a result irrespective of who is at the helm.

[deuces wild]

Yes, the Official Investment site for Kurdistan. I can read, you know. And that is missing the point. I would prefer to listen to your views not those of others, even if they co-incide. Otherwise belonging and contributing to a forum is just a waste of time.

Thos.

Let's recap.

Someone said "The only good thing to have come out of it is Saddam Hussein's recent death sentence for alleged war crimes against his own people."

I then post a link to a webpage put together by the Kurdistan government showing thanks to the US for what we did.

You then said " I find this constant direction to other peoples (exteremly biased) views via links to be time consuming and add little to the debate."

I then pointed out that the web page I posted a link to was a page put together by a segment of government of Iraq.

Not good enough for you........you state that you want to hear my opinions.

I have posted my views on this before and those views do not need repeating. But to make you happy, here are some facts, not opinions, from me. 2 of my best friends sons served in Iraq, one returning early this year and one returning just last month. Both are US Marines and both reported that things are going quite well over there. Both said they would go back if asked to and believe in the war. Just a tiny sampling but you asked for personal beliefs and examples.

Another fact: The media does not report the good things going on in Iraq........they focus on the negative. The ill informed listen only to the negative reports and buy into the fact that the war is going bad.

If the elections result in the Democrats taking control of the House and Senate the ill informed will have won.

Now here is a current example of good news neutralized by a statement (in the report) of a small pocket (folks in Saddam's home town) disagreeing with the death sentence handed down on Saddam. (Note the source is the ever liberal BBC): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6118524.stm

ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, BBC.........they all do it. Sadly the uninformed buy into it.

If we abandon Iraq now the consequences to the entire western world will be devistating. Too bad folks are so blinded by their political beliefs that they cannot see that.

I feel sorry for the world my kids are growing up in. This thread exemplifies that.

[CurlyWhirly]

It's not B'liar that will suffer at the next elections as he is not standing.

Yes you are right Gandalph, I forgot that he was stepping down

The trouble is now that the act of the Invasion of Iraq has happened, it will be the Labour Party that will suffer as a result irrespective of who is at the helm.

I totally agree with this view by the way.

[Tankus]

Thos

On the other hand, if the Democrats do well, we may see a change and get what might be a decent outcome to that war.

.....

Not possible now ..... too much blood spilt ...

will be the Labour Party that will suffer as a result irrespective of who is at the helm

hopefully those culpable punished at her majesty's pleasure (an' it ain't a nightclub)

They put him there , kept him there , a spanking is due

[Thos]

Another fact: The media does not report the good things going on in Iraq........they focus on the negative. The ill informed listen only to the negative reports and buy into the fact that the war is going bad.

If the elections result in the Democrats taking control of the House and Senate the ill informed will have won.

Now here is a current example of good news neutralized by a statement (in the report) of a small pocket (folks in Saddam's home town) disagreeing with the death sentence handed down on Saddam. (Note the source is the ever liberal BBC): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6118524.stm

ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, BBC.........they all do it. Sadly the uninformed buy into it.

If we abandon Iraq now the consequences to the entire western world will be devistating. Too bad folks are so blinded by their political beliefs that they cannot see that.

I feel sorry for the world my kids are growing up in. This thread exemplifies that.

I wonder whether it ever crosses your mind that people who hold differing opinions than those above are not necessarily ill informed or uninformed but have come to a different conclusion.

I think living for citizens in Iraq is a miserable existence at the moment, though the Kurdistan area must be better off than when Saddam was inflicting his regime on them. Nevertheless, I, personally do not think that the allies should get out. The leadership in Iraq does not want this and, I suspect, neither do many other people. Having said that, we do seem to be muddling along with no clear exit strategy.

Thos.

[AlanHo]

....Republicans don't click here

[andsome]

I await the Senate results with interest. It's a pity that we can't give his poodle a smacked behind yet.

[AlanHo]

I understand Hillary Clinton is getting quite excited.

I trust DW will be along soon to explain the situation more fully and accurately than is expressed in our media.

[deuces wild]

Congratulations to the Democrats. :)