I watched a program today on.........

[deuces wild]

........York Minster Cathedral. What an absolutely amazing piece of architecture and beauty!

How lucky you are to have that type of history in your Country that you can touch, feel and see.

[catgate]

I think the choice of the word "Lucky" is not very appropriate.

To start with think about how much money it needed to erect such a structure. Then think of where that money came from. It came, in a variety of ways from the peasants. Certainly the Lords of the Manors etc., and the Church itself, actually paid out the money that was used, but where did they get it from. Additionally the peasants would be doing most of the hard labour just "for the glory of God". I do not think they would look upon it as lucky.

As far as to days "peasants" are concerned I do not think they think themselves lucky. Up until the advent of the British "Tourist Industry" in the 70s York Minster was just there. It was just another interesting object and landmark. However as soon as someone realised there was profit to be made out of tourism it was "marketed", as a great tourist attraction, along with other things in the city. The result was that the city has become so overcrowded with traffic that the city fathers have gone totally overboard on traffic control. Ken Livingston is just a beginner. They are desperate for you to visit the city and spend your money there, but they do not want you to come in your car. They expect you to travel to a car park about two miles out of town and then catch a bus into the city. In fact if it could be arranged they would like you to stay at home and just send in the money that you would have spent had you actually visited the place.

In reality what has happened here, as in every other tourist attraction in the world, is that the original 'attractions', what ever they are, are ruined by the people who come to "enjoy" them. The people who make money out of this despoliation are not the local people. They are incomers who have invested in shops, cafes, restaurants, etc to "service" the visitors. The locals are deprived of their own city and are charged exorbitant local taxes to fund the measure to keep up the onslaught. Road and pavement repairs, road calming measures, extra police, bigger and better street lighting, armies of street cleaners...you name it is there. The local peoples needs have become secondary to the needs of tourism.

Lucky????

We live about 12 miles from York. It is our nearest large town. I refuse to go into York unless what I want is unavailable elsewhere, even if it means an extra hours driving.

Lucky???

[deuces wild]

I think the choice of the word "Lucky" is not very appropriate.

To start with think about how much money it needed to erect such a structure...............<snip all the negative>...................

Lucky???

Yes, lucky.

Think glass half full...........think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half full................think glass half full...............think glass half

Got it?

[ɹəuəllıʍ ʇɐb]

Got it?

You certainly made your point! :D

[artist]

Well my opinion, for what it's worth - is that we are, indeed, very lucky to have so much of history still standing. The prolem is that the structures do cost a lot to maintain. Tourist money is needed to help with that.

Here in Dorset we are innundated with tourists for most of the year. We locals can't get near the beach! But without all the visitors vast amounts of monuments, churches and the like would just crumble away. It's something we all have to live with.

When I was in Sacremento, a few years back, visiting my brother, he took us to a few places that are considered very old in America. To us, with all our history still standing, it all seemed so very 'new'. It made us appreciate even more, just what we have here.

You should come over for a visit DW - you'd love the places.......... :)

[Tankus]

bring lots of $ as its two to one ...and we see you comming ......arf

I like York too

[Tankus]

Ken Livingston is just a beginner

eerrrr ......No ... he isnt .... hes out to lunch ...and desert

[-pops-]

If you're into cathedrals, check out:

Canterbury

Winchester

Salisbury

Worcester

Chichester

Westminster Abbey

Fountains Abbey (this is a ruin of the most spectacular splendour).

For a non-Gothic example, St Paul's Cathedral

There are loads more old buildings religious and non religious - not only in the UK. Just a hop over to France and in a very short time you can be in Paris with Montmartre or, even closer to the UK, Chartres.

[Tankus]

Salisbury gets my vote ..... and another splended ruin ...St Davids

dont forget our countrys other hobby ....the WMDS of their day ...Castles

[Thos]

I think catgate is absolutely right. It is tourism and the money it brings that keeps our "heritage" alive. And the troubles he outlines are the price the local people have to pay. Both my eldest granddaughters went to York University and I can confirm that during the period May to September you cannot move in the place. Yet the Minster IS glorious and people should not be denied the chance to see it. Many people do, of course, as catgate suggest, send money in without even visiting but the tourist board doesn't get a whiff of that.

I can't blame local people doubting whether they are "lucky" to have such a building in their locality: most, I suspect, like it but would like it to be somewhere else.

Thos.

[catgate]

Despite DW's infantile and puerile display, I still maintain the people who happen to be "overtaken" by tourism are very unlucky. I spent a big part of my life living in the Yorkshire Dales, and very pleasant it used to be.

It eventually gained the "advantages" afforded it by becoming a National Park and also a Tourist Attraction. The area is now totally ruined. Not only has tourism ruined the countryside, by wearing out footpaths, knocking down walls, breaking down gates and allowing livestock to escape, it has also driven out most of the local people who have either been priced out of the property market or have just had enough of the hassle. I have a cousin who lives in Horton-in-Ribblesdale and who is fearful of taking her car out of her driveway, to go into Settle (or elsewhere) because she usually finds that when she gets back some tourist will have parked his car in her drive way because the local car parks are all full. The car owner may by then be halfway up Penyghent.

Tourism has also ruined the dales townships. From the end of October to the beginning of March it is often possible to cross the road with some degree of safety. However from March to October it is some times difficult just to see across the road. All the towns are beginning to look the same, due to a combination of "Planning" and the same chain stores, banks and estate agents taking over. Even the weekly markets are composed of the same stalls and stall holders, non of whom are local.

The same story about local taxes applies. Vast sums are needed to rebuild walls and foot paths, to repair the inadequate roads, to clear up all the polystyrene and graffiti, and of course to employ an army of National Park Wardens (each with his own Land Rover Discovery). The locals are taxed viciously to fund all this. To the extent that many small local businesses just fold up and the entire native population suffer.

Lucky !!!

[AlanHo]

Well said catgate - I totally agree with your views on this matter and am at a loss to see why DW posted such an inappropriate response. Despite the vastness of the USA - many places there are being ruined by tourism and I would have expected him to empathise with this problem.

We are all a bit hypocritical though - I moan about too many tourists at the most popular venues around the World - be it the USA Grand Canyon, Egypt Pyramids, Thai Temples, Australian Barrier Reef, Great Wall of China, Stratford Upon Avon or York Minster etc etc.......but I have enjoyed all these destinations and many others, myself.

[deuces wild]

Despite DW's infantile and puerile display, I still maintain ......

Just trying to get you to stop seeing everything in a negative light. B)

Pops, thanks for the listing of other historic cathedrals. I will have to check them out.

[catgate]

Just trying to get you to stop seeing everything in a negative light. B)

Do carry on.....you're making a big impression!

[deuces wild]

Just trying to get you to stop seeing everything in a negative light. B)

Do carry on.....you're making a big impression!

OK and thanks! :lol:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7270008109000603799

[catgate]

Just trying to get you to stop seeing everything in a negative light. B)

Do carry on.....you're making a big impression!

OK and thanks! :lol:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7270008109000603799

Very appropriate.

Wasn't Louis Armstong also known as Satchel Mouth?

[andsome]

Lichfield Cathedral is the only three spired cathedral in the country. We are proud of it, and always take our visitors to see it.

Lichfield Cathedral.

[-pops-]

My apologies, andsome, but Lichfield was omitted from my listing. It is, as you imply, inspiring and definitely worth including in the list of great buildings - I'm sure there are a lot more.

[nellie2]

Whether you like tourism or not we are stuck with it and it is tourism that keeps our heritage alive. Those ancient buildings may well have been built using the blood sweat and tears of the poor peasant but at least they are still there for us to enjoy and as a monument to them.

I visited Fountains Abbey last summer.......... it was amazing and will certainly go again next time I'm up that way.

[deuces wild]

Well my opinion, for what it's worth - is that we are, indeed, very lucky to have so much of history still standing. The prolem is that the structures do cost a lot to maintain. Tourist money is needed to help with that.

Here in Dorset we are innundated with tourists for most of the year. We locals can't get near the beach! But without all the visitors vast amounts of monuments, churches and the like would just crumble away. It's something we all have to live with.

When I was in Sacremento, a few years back, visiting my brother, he took us to a few places that are considered very old in America. To us, with all our history still standing, it all seemed so very 'new'. It made us appreciate even more, just what we have here.

You should come over for a visit DW - you'd love the places.......... :)

You are correct about what we consider old here in the States...........a *Century* House is a historic landmark. :D

My wife was lucky enough to travel to Europe with her parents when she was young. Perhaps once I retire we can both fly over the pond and visit the UK and other wonderful places in Europe.

[Tankus]

lichfield ......? ...like ....where ..?

[andsome]

I fully appreciate the points made about the labour involved in building these cathedrals, and also all the stately home etc. There is no doubt that the main population were under fed and cruelly treated, and ill paid for their efforts. However, it is for this reason that I am glad that these place are now preserved for us to visit and enjoy. There are many fine old homes and castles etc maintained by the National Trust, and the annual membership fee is in my opinion worth every penny. We visit several old homes, castles etc every year, as well as calling in to see old cathedrals when in the area of one as well. For a more modern cathedral, try visiting Coventry. The Sutherland tapestry is an eye opener. A visit to Calke Abbey makes the National trust membership fee worth it for that visit alone. The walled gardens are something else, I have several photos taken there posted in the gallery.

[-pops-]

The poignant thing about Coventry Cathedral is that the ruin of the old Gothic building is still there, part standing, next to the new. Coventry, being the centre of the engineering industry was a good target for the Nazis and the cathedral was one of the important buildings that was destroyed during air raids. There is a crude wooden cross where the altar used made from the beams of the building.

Tankus, Lichfield is a town in Staffordshire, England.

[artist]

I fully appreciate the points made about the labour involved in building these cathedrals, and also all the stately home etc. There is no doubt that the main population were under fed and cruelly treated, and ill paid for their efforts. However, it is for this reason that I am glad that these place are now preserved for us to visit and enjoy. There are many fine old homes and castles etc maintained by the National Trust, and the annual membership fee is in my opinion worth every penny. We visit several old homes, castles etc every year, as well as calling in to see old cathedrals when in the area of one as well. For a more modern cathedral, try visiting Coventry. The Sutherland tapestry is an eye opener. A visit to Calke Abbey makes the National trust membership fee worth it for that visit alone. The walled gardens are something else, I have several photos taken there posted in the gallery.

Totally agree Andsome!! We are longstanding members of the NT as well- Where ever we go - we seek out the old places to visit.

(Can you belive we actually agree on something??)

:D

[andsome]

The poignant thing about Coventry Cathedral is that the ruin of the old Gothic building is still there, part standing, next to the new. Coventry, being the centre of the engineering industry was a good target for the Nazis and the cathedral was one of the important buildings that was destroyed during air raids. There is a crude wooden cross where the altar used made from the beams of the building.

Tankus, Lichfield is a town in Staffordshire, England.

It's a CITY actually, small thought it be.

I fully appreciate the points made about the labour involved in building these cathedrals, and also all the stately home etc. There is no doubt that the main population were under fed and cruelly treated, and ill paid for their efforts. However, it is for this reason that I am glad that these place are now preserved for us to visit and enjoy. There are many fine old homes and castles etc maintained by the National Trust, and the annual membership fee is in my opinion worth every penny. We visit several old homes, castles etc every year, as well as calling in to see old cathedrals when in the area of one as well. For a more modern cathedral, try visiting Coventry. The Sutherland tapestry is an eye opener. A visit to Calke Abbey makes the National trust membership fee worth it for that visit alone. The walled gardens are something else, I have several photos taken there posted in the gallery.

Totally agree Andsome!! We are longstanding members of the NT as well- Where ever we go - we seek out the old places to visit.

(Can you belive we actually agree on something??)

:D

Surely we BOTH agree that there is no better looking member on this forum? :D