Don't spend it all at once !

[Boris]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7397705.stm

[catgate]

I don't suppose when this poor benighted sod entered the scramble for the trough he ever dreamed that the pinnacle of his career would be as fall guy, puppet and excuse-maker-in-general to the most expensive waste of money and space ever to be foisted on to the public in the guise of a LEADER.

[Boris]

I don't suppose when this poor benighted sod entered the scramble for the trough he ever dreamed that the pinnacle of his career would be as fall guy, puppet and excuse-maker-in-general to the most expensive waste of money and space ever to be foisted on to the public in the guise of a LEADER.

No .......... I didn't

[Irene]

Did anyone hear when the increased basic rate will be introduced?

[Alan2273]

Did anyone hear when the increased basic rate will be introduced?

Before the by-election or am I being cynicaL

[Irene]

Did anyone hear when the increased basic rate will be introduced?

Before the by-election or am I being cynicaL

:lol: .. Maybe.

[CurlyWhirly]

I will probably get back the £200+ that Labour took off me with the abolition of the 10p tax rate as I earn less than £18,500 a year but I will still not vote Labour again as they shouldn't have hit the poor in the first place

Also this compensation package is for this year only and, as the 10p tax rate is obsolete, we will all get hit next year and in future years although the Chancellor said that he is going to support low paid workers in the pre-budget report.

I'm afraid that whatever Labour do now, I will not vote for them in the next general election as all trust in them has gone 'out of the window' at least for me it has.

p.s. the compensation package will be funded by another 2.7 billion pounds of government borrowing :0

You wouldn't think that the government would have to borrow any money to pay for this package with all the extra revenue from the rising oil price which must be a lot more than 2.7 billion pounds!

[CurlyWhirly]

I forgot to say that all these U-turns by Brown and Darling must be humiliating :D

It also gives the impression that the government is weak which is something that can not be said about either Thatcher or Blair (not that I'm a fan of either)

[catgate]

I forgot to say that all these U-turns by Brown and Darling must be humiliating :D

It also gives the impression that the government is weak which is something that can not be said about either Thatcher or Blair (not that I'm a fan of either)

They do not know where they are. What's more they do not know what they are. Furthermore, if someone sat them down and told them what they are, they do not have the intelligence to understand the difference between AC and DC !!!

[-pops-]

Whatever happened to statesmen? People who had a genuine concern for their country and for its inhabitants rather than the pig-troughing self-centred fools we have now?

I'm not being political in this - they are ALL the same, whichever party they claim to represent.

[Tankus]

its unfunded .... a sub prime tax cut ..............covered by borrowing against what ..?..the keys to number 10 perhaps ....?

camerons (ours) problem to pay it back you think

wot a crock ...... and yet it bought off Frank Field ......... %$£@*ers

[Irene]

I forgot to say that all these U-turns by Brown and Darling must be humiliating :D

It also gives the impression that the government is weak which is something that can not be said about either Thatcher or Blair (not that I'm a fan of either)

I don't usually make comments on political threads, but I must say that I did like both of them.

:0 Please don't shoot me down in flames!!

[catgate]

Whatever happened to statesmen? People who had a genuine concern for their country and for its inhabitants rather than the pig-troughing self-centred fools we have now?

I'm not being political in this - they are ALL the same, whichever party they claim to represent.

I trust you mean party political.

In answer to your question. In my opinion the change started when the position of country gentlemen and lords of the manors, in government, were replaced by "professional" politicians. Generally speaking the country gentlemen and lords of the manors had the welfare of "their people" and the country in mind, and they were concerned to keep them happy. They had their own private incomes and so were not in need of a trough. The professional politicians had only their own welfare at heart. They were envious of the c.g & l m brigade and wanted some of what they had. They had no private funding and so needed a ) a party to support them and b ) a trough where in to pig. I am sure some of the c.g & l m were less "caring" than others but when quite a number of them became involved with the great expansion of the industrial revolution they needed to care less still and did so. Bradford has a great responsibility for, at the turn of the 19th/20th century, its part in the development of the labour party and confrontational party politics.

it seems to me that as as the politicians desperate need for money increases so the quality of government goes down, as far as I can see never have the ruling politicians needed money more than they do now. Not only is the party now in power bankrupt. both financially and morally, but the country that it is governing is in exactly the same state. Significantly even the people responsible for the origination and funding of the present ruling party have realised some of the the truth about "caring" politicians.

The only way out is to find a system of government in which there can be no nest feathering, but since most of the Western world has aped our system, it has become accepted as the norm.

Our system, the Mother of Parliament, had no husband so what it has spawned is obviously......!

[CurlyWhirly]

I forgot to say that all these U-turns by Brown and Darling must be humiliating :D

It also gives the impression that the government is weak which is something that can not be said about either Thatcher or Blair (not that I'm a fan of either)

I don't usually make comments on political threads, but I must say that I did like both of them.

:0 Please don't shoot me down in flames!!

I wouldn't do that as it is a debate where we all have our opinions ;)

[CurlyWhirly]

it seems to me that as as the politicians desperate need for money increases so the quality of government goes down, as far as I can see never have the ruling politicians needed money more than they do now. Not only is the party now in power bankrupt. both financially and morally, but the country that it is governing is in exactly the same state. Significantly even the people responsible for the origination and funding of the present ruling party have realised some of the the truth about "caring" politicians.

The only way out is to find a system of government in which there can be no nest feathering, but since most of the Western world has aped our system, it has become accepted as the norm.

Our system, the Mother of Parliament, had no husband so what it has spawned is obviously......!

Agreed and this is because of the governments obsession with spending billions on the public services even at the present time when the economy is slowing.

What should be happening is that the government should be cutting back on it's public spending and also pulling our troops out of both Afghanistan and Iraq as, in my opinion, they have no need to be there and it's costing billions of pounds not to mention our soldiers lives :(

I'm also extremely concerned about the rising National Debt that will have to be paid back eventually and just think of all the interest being paid out to service this debt.

Not only has the public been obsessed with credit but the government has as well and it's all going pear shaped now with rising inflation, etc.

p.s. for the first few years, Labour managed the economy well as they stuck to the Tories spending plans and even paid back some of the National Debt but after a while they changed and went back to 'old' Labour i.e. high tax and spend policies!

[Watchful]

Ah, but....old Labour would never have abolished the 10% tax rate.

I feel that 'new' labour was nothing but watered-down conservatism.

[catgate]

I saw an interesting figure quoted somewhere in the last week or so.

It said that in the days of feudalism the serfs had to work 40 days per year on their lords land to pay their "rent" on that land which he let them use. We now have to work 80 days per year to earn money which will go to the government. That is sixteen weeks of work before you earn anything for yourself.

That's got to be progress.

Mind you, in those days if you didn't work you didn't eat, and money was not sent as a gifts to African dictators.

[Boris]

Did anyone hear when the increased basic rate will be introduced?

The money will come via a £60 lump sum in September pay packets, followed by a £10 monthly increase until the end of the year.

From the Beeb

[CurlyWhirly]

Ah, but....old Labour would never have abolished the 10% tax rate.

Agreed and is the reason why I won't be voting for them in the next General Election for the first time ever as I've always been a staunch Labour supporter.

[andsome]

What no one so far has pointed out, is that the very poorest will NOT benefit by this climb down. Over 60's will not get the full amount. This just goes to show even more what a cynical ploy this is, to buy votes.

HERE

[CurlyWhirly]

What no one so far has pointed out, is that the very poorest will NOT benefit by this climb down. Over 60's will not get the full amount. This just goes to show even more what a cynical ploy this is, to buy votes.

HERE

Yes so much for Labours promise of looking after the pensioners that were affected by the 10p tax rate abolition

Also I believe that the U-turn is just a bribe for next weeks Crewe and Nantwich by-election and I wonder if the voters will forgive Brown and vote Labour?

[andsome]

What no one so far has pointed out, is that the very poorest will NOT benefit by this climb down. Over 60's will not get the full amount. This just goes to show even more what a cynical ploy this is, to buy votes.

HERE

Yes so much for Labours promise of looking after the pensioners that were affected by the 10p tax rate abolition

Also I believe that the U-turn is just a bribe for next weeks Crewe and Nantwich by-election and I wonder if the voters will forgive Brown and vote Labour?

The problem is that there are far too many people with the old view, (I have always voted Labour, they are for the working class, my parents and their parents voted Labour before me), they cannot see beyond the end of their noses. This view has about as much merit as saying the they would not vote Tory because they did not like Thatcher. She has long since gone. It is about as pointless as saying that they would not vote Labour because they did not like Attlee. It is about today that matters today, and this is the biggest load of Wallies that have ever been in Government, starting with B'liar and now El Gordo.

[rong]

What no one so far has pointed out, is that the very poorest will NOT benefit by this climb down. Over 60's will not get the full amount. This just goes to show even more what a cynical ploy this is, to buy votes.

HERE

Yes so much for Labours promise of looking after the pensioners that were affected by the 10p tax rate abolition

Also I believe that the U-turn is just a bribe for next weeks Crewe and Nantwich by-election and I wonder if the voters will forgive Brown and vote Labour?

The problem is that there are far too many people with the old view, (I have always voted Labour, they are for the working class, my parents and their parents voted Labour before me), they cannot see beyond the end of their noses. This view has about as much merit as saying the they would not vote Tory because they did not like Thatcher. She has long since gone. It is about as pointless as saying that they would not vote Labour because they did not like Attlee. It is about today that matters today, and this is the biggest load of Wallies that have ever been in Government, starting with B'liar and now El Gordo.

So what have we that will be better? I don't follow politics any more than I need to and can't see that smarmy pants would not be worse, in fact every day that passes makes that even more certain. We need some candidates that are prepared to live on their wages then we might get somewhere.

[andsome]

What no one so far has pointed out, is that the very poorest will NOT benefit by this climb down. Over 60's will not get the full amount. This just goes to show even more what a cynical ploy this is, to buy votes.

HERE

Yes so much for Labours promise of looking after the pensioners that were affected by the 10p tax rate abolition

Also I believe that the U-turn is just a bribe for next weeks Crewe and Nantwich by-election and I wonder if the voters will forgive Brown and vote Labour?

The problem is that there are far too many people with the old view, (I have always voted Labour, they are for the working class, my parents and their parents voted Labour before me), they cannot see beyond the end of their noses. This view has about as much merit as saying the they would not vote Tory because they did not like Thatcher. She has long since gone. It is about as pointless as saying that they would not vote Labour because they did not like Attlee. It is about today that matters today, and this is the biggest load of Wallies that have ever been in Government, starting with B'liar and now El Gordo.

So what have we that will be better? I don't follow politics any more than I need to and can't see that smarmy pants would not be worse, in fact every day that passes makes that even more certain. We need some candidates that are prepared to live on their wages then we might get somewhere.

No one knows, he is as yet untried. I reserve judgement.

[Watchful]

This is not my problem; my family were Tories and their parents before them. I broke the mould when I went Liberal and then Labour. Much to my father's disgust. He never acknowledged I had a mind of my own

Today though, It's not so cut and dried.