Money money money

[AlanHo]

This is the most informative article I have yet read about the banking crisis and the financial pickle we are all in.............

Click here

[Dencandy]

Thank you for that, AlanHo, and also to Robert Preston who wrote it. Very informative. Most of us have no way of judging whether what he says is correct, because we can't check the figures & theories. But it rings true. Many people, especially older ones, have felt uneasy for a long time that borrowing on the basis of paying back further and further into the future was bound to come a cropper eventually. But personally I had no idea it had got as bad as it has, with governments and banks leading the way into the swamp.

It was also sobering to read that the low-paid Chinese save more of their income than those in the USA & UK. I hope we all learn from this. One thing we could all do is cut up our credit cards, or get in the unvarying habit of paying the full amount of credit used each month.

[andsome]

El Gordo still tells lie upon lie, informing us that the UK is better placed than most other economies to come out of this lot quickly.

[catgate]

The origin of the article, and its author, suggest that a pinch of salt may be a good thing.

[CurlyWhirly]

El Gordo still tells lie upon lie, informing us that the UK is better placed than most other economies to come out of this lot quickly.

Not looking good :(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7774032.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7775191.stm

So much for being well placed to weather the economic storm but never mind Brown saved the World :lol:

My personal opinion is that it was a freudian slip rather than a slip of the tongue!

[CurlyWhirly]

This is the most informative article I have yet read about the banking crisis and the financial pickle we are all in.............

Click here

By the way interesting read :)

[catgate]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/persona...ot-the-USA.html

[andsome]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/persona...ot-the-USA.html

All unfortunately VERY TRUE. But still, the ignorant will back him.

[Robbers Dog]

All unfortunately VERY TRUE. But still, the ignorant will back him.

And so speaks Windows Forum's shining TORY light.

So, anyone who does not agree with YOUR, or the right wing Telegraphs views is classed as ignorant.

[Belatucadrus]

His problem was that he regarded an economy based on funny money banking transactions and high house prices, buoyed up by foreign investors as a good thing. Now it's all gone tits up the fact that all the production and most of the service industries have been shipped abroad and that his grandiose house of cards is built on quick sand is becoming clear. All he's got left is spin and the deluded belief that "He's saved the world" now was that a Freudian slip or what ?

[rong]

All unfortunately VERY TRUE. But still, the ignorant will back him.

And so speaks Windows Forum's shining TORY light.

So, anyone who does not agree with YOUR, or the right wing Telegraphs views is classed as ignorant.

The thing to do is wait for six months into a tory government when Cameron has his hands in the till even deeper, the hospitals and schools have been run into the ground again, the green taxes have doubled so his mates are the only ones that can afford to travel, then all this lot can be quoted in the posts complaining about the government

[andsome]

All unfortunately VERY TRUE. But still, the ignorant will back him.

And so speaks Windows Forum's shining TORY light.

So, anyone who does not agree with YOUR, or the right wing Telegraphs views is classed as ignorant.

I wondered where you had been hiding since all the furore started about the mess that E; Gordo has landed us in.

All unfortunately VERY TRUE. But still, the ignorant will back him.

And so speaks Windows Forum's shining TORY light.

So, anyone who does not agree with YOUR, or the right wing Telegraphs views is classed as ignorant.

The thing to do is wait for six months into a tory government when Cameron has his hands in the till even deeper, the hospitals and schools have been run into the ground again, the green taxes have doubled so his mates are the only ones that can afford to travel, then all this lot can be quoted in the posts complaining about the government

We would have to see wouldn't we? You can't keep harping back, it's the present and the future that matters

[Gandalph]

All unfortunately VERY TRUE. But still, the ignorant will back him.

And so speaks Windows Forum's shining TORY light.

So, anyone who does not agree with YOUR, or the right wing Telegraphs views is classed as ignorant.

The thing to do is wait for six months into a tory government when Cameron has his hands in the till even deeper, the hospitals and schools have been run into the ground again, the green taxes have doubled so his mates are the only ones that can afford to travel, then all this lot can be quoted in the posts complaining about the government

Don't forget the bit about the Tories will be standing up, when they have done bugger all to put things right, and say that it will take a long time to put things right thanks to the Labour Government making things so bad during their reign of office.

That's always a favorite with the Opposition party once they get into power. :D

[Robbers Dog]

You can't keep harping back

You seem to do plenty of this, especially about your missing Pension. :D

[CurlyWhirly]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/persona...ot-the-USA.html

Gordon Brown isn't directly to blame for the recession but my criticism is that he didn't better prepare the UK for a recession by putting away money to act as a safety net.

Some countries (like Australia) have cleared it's national debt over the last 10 years of worldwide growth.

What annoys me is that Brown is supposed to be the 'saviour of the world' but in reality all he has done is double the UK national debt to over a trillion pounds (in a few years time) which means that taxpayers will be paying off this debt for decades to come

Anyone can be a spend thrift, it's not hard

p.s. in the pre-budget report, Alistair Darling said that once the UK economy was growing again then he would make it a priority to reduce the national debt even though the government never did this during the 'boom years' when they were borrowing even thought tax revenue was high

In my opinion the government couldn't run a ****-up in a brewery

[CurlyWhirly]

The thing to do is wait for six months into a tory government when Cameron has his hands in the till even deeper, the hospitals and schools have been run into the ground again, the green taxes have doubled so his mates are the only ones that can afford to travel, then all this lot can be quoted in the posts complaining about the government.

I'm not a Tory (never have voted for them in my life) but we need to live within our means if we are to pay off the massive national debt.

We can't go on as we have done over the last decade and that is spending more than we earn as a nation :(

[catgate]

Gordon Brown is, like Bliar, Maggie, Mc Millan, Heath, Callahan, Major etc etc a politician, but a worringly inept and arrogant one, and he is extremely mentally challenged/disturbed. Like all politicians he got where he is not by his own efforts, but through the support of his backers. His Westminster supporters were, and still are, a mixture of odd balls and misfits, who were either too simple to see him for what he really is or were purely interested in self promotion at any cost (except to themselves), and these included his advisors and consultants, when he was Chancellor, who played him for the sucker that he is.

The finacial backers of any party need pay back and so It is interesting to look at who keeps the various parties financially afloat. They are virtually all business men who stand to gain something from this support. The Unions, the originators and backbone of the Labour movement, have all but abandoned the party. It matters little who is in power but rather who is bankrolling them, and, like the kings of old, the "rulers" will reward, in a variety of ways, for "favours".

Much of the mess we are in, in this country, is ascribable to bad government based, on bad advice, provided by self interested advisors, to a mentally challenged ego ridden minister who, because of this ego, could not be seen as ineffective, despite the fact that that was the case.

The general world problems, including some of ours, are due to Capitalist Globalisation and massive corruption in regulatory authorities, including most governments world wide.

The Blessed Margaret, after she and Scargill and the unions between them had destroyed most of British Industry, claimed that we would become a Service Economy. How she came up with this utter nonsense is a mystery (probably an advisor).

The fact of the matter is that real money is needed for purchasing power, and without a product to sell there will be no real money. The stuff that banks shuffle about is not real money. It is "believe in" money...credit. Real money has to be earned by productive effort. This can be proved by looking at the way in which money is saved by "out sourcing" labour, Think of all the purchasing power being drained out of the country and into Bombay by the customer services of BT., the banks, ISPcompanies, in fact virtually all the customer service call centres. Think of all the money being saved on the manufacture of TVs, Toaster,Mobile Phones, Radio controlled wiffwaffs and all the other essential needs of today, by having them made in China.

Despite the ever desperate manipulations of governments over the last fifteen to twenty years to reduce unemployment by creating real and quasi jobs in "the public sector", this form of employment is nonsense, because it is non wealth producing and is just simply "proxi" spending of money produced by another's productive effort,

The world has suddenly had to realise that belief money is a mirage and the only sort of money of any value is real money produced by productive effort.

It has been a long time coming, but all this has been looming up for many, many years. It's emergence right now has been accelerated by faster, almost instantaneous communications.

[CurlyWhirly]

The Blessed Margaret, after she and Scargill and the unions between them had destroyed most of British Industry, claimed that we would become a Service Economy. How she came up with this utter nonsense is a mystery (probably an advisor).

The fact of the matter is that real money is needed for purchasing power, and without a product to sell there will be no real money. The stuff that banks shuffle about is not real money. It is "believe in" money...credit. Real money has to be earned by productive effort. This can be proved by looking at the way in which money is saved by "out sourcing" labour, Think of all the purchasing power being drained out of the country and into Bombay by the customer services of BT., the banks, ISPcompanies, in fact virtually all the customer service call centres. Think of all the money being saved on the manufacture of TVs, Toaster,Mobile Phones, Radio controlled wiffwaffs and all the other essential needs of today, by having them made in China.

I entirely agree.

The UK manufacturing industry is in a dire state compared to what it used to be and the government has been relying too much on the banking sector for tax revenue.

Now that this 'bubble' has burst, it will be a long time (if ever) before the government can rely on tax revenue from the banking sector on the scale that it enjoyed before.

Despite the ever desperate manipulations of governments over the last fifteen to twenty years to reduce unemployment by creating real and quasi jobs in "the public sector", this form of employment is nonsense, because it is non wealth producing and is just simply "proxi" spending of money produced by another's productive effort,

The world has suddenly had to realise that belief money is a mirage and the only sort of money of any value is real money produced by productive effort.

Yes and that's one of the reason why Gordon Brown believes in a large public sector as he knows that they will almost certainly vote Labour knowing that if the Tories got into power, they would probably cut back the public sector to more manageable levels.

It has been a long time coming, but all this has been looming up for many, many years. It's emergence right now has been accelerated by faster, almost instantaneous communications.

Yes but if the government hadn't built up such a large public sector 'black hole' then the 2.5% VAT reduction would be a boost to the economy that wouldn't need to be paid back in future years.

Who in their right mind is going to go OTT with spending on the high street when they are unsure of their jobs being safe and knowing that taxes will have to rise in 2 years time

[AlanHo]

I have no great objection to government income being hiked in the future provided it is directed at taxing the high earners, high tax rates on the indecent profits of energy and water companies, introduction of road tax for caravans and trailers, big increase in duty on tobacco products, massive cuts in the luxuries provided to prison inmates, withdrawl from Iraq and Afganistan, cut back in foreign aid to corrupt regimes and the like,

[andsome]

A lot of common sense in the last five posts.