Questions for everyone

[Redhat]

Morning all :)

I have been moved onto the marketing team over at Ubuntu Linux. I have been appointed head of SpreadUbuntu.org and also as part of the main team.

The point of this post is to get some feedback on Linux experiences, or near-experiences. Here are some questions I have had in mind, and I would be very greatful if some of you could give me some answers :D

I will be feeding back the response to the rest of the team, and then to the developers if so needed.

OK, let's shoot!

What is/was your biggest fear of trying Linux out?

Was it confirmed? How?

What could be implimented to make the experience more enjoyable/usable?

I thank you for your time :D

Matt

[andsome]

It has taken me long enough to master Windows to the extent that I have done, and I see little point in trying another O.S. That is my reason.

[scuzzman]

What is/was your biggest fear of trying Linux out?

That I wouldn't understand it. I hate not being able to do something. Truth be told though, once I stopped using a Windows attitude, the learning came much more easily, and now I consider myself to be pretty well experienced and enjoy helping people with their Linux quibbles, provided they're not afraid to read/learn.

Was it confirmed? How?

Yes and no, see the response above.

What could be implimented to make the experience more enjoyable/usable?

We need better hardware support. I realize this is the fault of hardware manufacturers, but perhaps better PR with companies such as Lexmark, Broadcom, ATI, etc. will get us some decent driver support for these devices, especially devices such as Wireless cards, Printers, and Scanners (the trio every Linux helper hates to hear about). Also, commercial applications such as Macromedia Flash, Adobe Photoshop, and most games are a common source of frustration. While, it is true, we have The Gimp as a Photoshop analog, and winex/Cedega works very well, these programs need native Linux ports. The companies are missing out on a very large (and growing daily) userbase - they just need to realize this.

If you really want information on frustrations new Linux users experience, head on over to http://www.linuxquestions.org. Specifically, the Linux-General forum. Here is where all the flaming rants go when/if closed. Also check out the Member Success Stories forum, to see what was done to overcome these frustrations (which can often be a painstaking process).

Most likely I'll think of more, and if I do, I'll post on Sunday :D

Congrats again Matt :D

[dagwoood]

Redhat, I wasn't scarred to try Linux but when I came to use it, I've found it hard going.

Desktop menus are a pain in that you can't find what you're looking for as the descriptions aren't helpful, or you will read a description and think what you're looking for is there, only to find it isn't and it can take you a while to find what you want, or, in the worsted case, not find what you want at all :(

Another problem is that when you do seek advice, even if you say your a newbie, the advice is in "Linux Speak" and you're still in the dark as to what to do.

Hardware configuration is another problem. I've found it hard to find how Linux is configuring/seeing your hardware, and when you do find the info, you can be at a loss as to how to change it. As an example, I want to change the RWIN value of my network adaptor as I managed to find out the value is way too small for my broadband connection. But after Googling, I found some ways to do it, but it's way beyond me to be able to perform the necessary tweaking.

If your not familiar/used to working with commands then you can become unstuck in no time. Just installing s/w is impossible for a newbie on some distros. This has been addressed in some versions(i.e.Linspire, Suse, Xandros)and is the reason why I'm currently trying Xandros.

I'll relate a tale from my own experience. I downloaded Linspire(when it was made available for free)and when I came to use it, graphic rendering was rubbish. I realised that the Nvidia driver I needed wasn't installed by default and I would have to pay to get the Nvidia kernel installed and then try and install the Nvidia driver manually.

I than went onto Suse 9.3. Thought my slow graphics would be solved as you can use Yast to install s/w. Problem was, Suse kept crashing. I then found out(with a lot of help)that Linux users with my motherboard chipset were experiencing the same problems and you needed a distro that ran on a newer kernel.

It was pure serendipity that I downloaded and installed Xandros to find that it installs the Nvidia driver when you install and that you can use Xandros Network to install other s/w that you may need.

Sorry it this isn't what you're specifically after Redhat, but it may give you a rough idea of the problems facing users who are new to Linux.

HTH, dagwoood.

[andsome]

Looking like I have been right to avoid it.

[Redhat]

Looking like I have been right to avoid it.

Linux isn't for everyone. Neither is Windows. :)

Thanks VERY much for the contributions so far. I shall use them as part of a mini-report if that is OK with everyone here?

[Thos]

I, too, have never used Linux simply because I don't experience all that many problems that I can attribute to Windows. If it ain't broke, don't mend it.

Thos. :)

[rong]

My biggest fear was that I would mess up my PC, and I did, but will try again when I have the time (or need) to install windows. I think I have an idea what I did wrong.

[Alan2273]

I have 2 computers one running Windows XP and the other running Fedora core 4.

At the start I used to regulary wipe out the installation trying to master the command line in root.

Different types of motherboards will only install certain distro`s, drivers for printers and scanners leave a lot to be desired.

I now only use Windows for applications that will not run on Linux, even WINE will not run some of these and as the wife likes to play the latest FPS games I have to keep Windows.

There are so many different distro`s out there that people new to Linux are confused what is the best one for them as I have used 11 different distro`s before i found the one I liked.

To sum up, drivers need to more widespread, programmes need to be easier to install ( when I first tried to install a tar.gz file I messed it all up, could not find where it had been saved to when it was untarred etc )

People do not always have time to go on Linux forums to solve problems, they want the simplicity of click and it works (Windows) and although Linux distro`s are getting there they are not ready yet.

[Topband]

What is/was your biggest fear of trying Linux out?

Having been a Windows user since Windows 3.11 it was the fear of the unknown. As I was using Windows 98SE so the next step was Windows XP. I thought long and hard about it before deciding on Xandros Linux 18 months ago.

Was it confirmed? How?

The fear was unfounded, because in a short while I took to it like a "duck to water" two reasons, the first I used to use DOS so I'm quite happy using commands and the other is I love learning new things.

What could be implemented to make the experience more enjoyable/usable?

I find any of the Linux distributions are all so different from each other there should be one to meet anyone's needs. To make it more enjoyable for new users I think its really important to make the installation of new programs easier, from what I've read Ubuntu is quite good on that score, Xandros is pretty good using the Debian system, but the command line has still got to be used for some programmes.

I have used and worked on Windows XP and frankly I'm less than impressed, I'm not sure why, I think its partly being afraid of being attacked by the nasties, having had to clean a few XP machines. On my old 98 machine I found I used to spend about an hour per week all the programmes to clean off the scumware, plus time spent with the maintenance programmes like defrag. Linux, zero time on maintenance.

Incidentally, I've still got 98SE on the other partition so I can fly my planes, but it doesn't connect to the Internet and it works fine.

[Redhat]

Thank you VERY much for the feedback and support on this issue!

Topband, Ubuntu is also built on the debian system and thus uses apt-get/Synaptic too. In the latest version too, there is a simplified version of Synaptic, which is like "Add/Remove Programs", but has hundreds of software to install, simply but checking a box next to the description!

Thanks everyone again, I'll begin compiling a short report for the team.

Keep em coming if you can!

[dagwoood]

I've found that boot managers can be a problem. A lot like to write to the MBR and this has created problems for me. If I hadn't got Drive Image 8, I would have been up the proverbial without a paddle on more than one occasion.

Another problem can be with how Linux wants to partition your hard drives. It's not a problem for me has I manually configure installs to make sure the partitions are where I want them and of the size I want. But if you're new to computing and you let Linux create them for you, you could end up with Linux creating partitions on hard drives you don't want it on and not be the size you want anyway.

Another downside with Linux in general is slow boot up/shutdown times. I know this isn't a problem as such, but my immediate concern was Linux wasn't picking up my hardware as it should and my system was running slower under Linux because my hardware wasn't being run at the speeds it's capable of.

In the latest version too, there is a simplified version of Synaptic, which is like "Add/Remove Programs", but has hundreds of software to install, simply but checking a box next to the description!

I didn't know that matt, I'll download Ubuntu and give it a try(ran a Live CD version of it a while ago and was quite impressed by the overall look of it).

[mark2]

What is/was your biggest fear of trying Linux out?

Breaking my windows installation and unable to boot into either linux or windows, and lack of some hardware support/drivers

Was it confirmed? How?

not in one case, but it took a post to find out how to get rid of Grub/lilo boot manager when I returned to windows only.

Hardware support for wireless needs to be better.

What could be implimented to make the experience more enjoyable/usable?

Simpler methods for installation of software, cross platform networking would make it more user friendly.

[Redhat]

How do you mean cross-platform networking, Mark? You mean with windows? That's what Samba is for :D

[dadyassa]

Not really help to your project, but a layman's view of the situation.

This is all above my head, but interesting.

Is there an easy guide anywhere sort of telling me how they differ to each other, I could read that and weigh up the pros and cons.

Maybe you would get a few conversions ;)

[expertec]

http://forums.neoplanet.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=17705

[dadyassa]

http://forums.neoplanet.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=17705

Thanks, I will have a browse through later, too much to handle after a few wines :lol:

[mark2]

How do you mean cross-platform networking, Mark? You mean with windows? That's what Samba is for :D

I know that now :D but there's more work involved than just running a wizard a la windows, windows users expect to find wizards to help.

I'll be loading up Ubuntu again shortly though.

[CurlyWhirly]

I know I could read this link but in my opinion I can't see the need for having so many different versions of Linux :huh:

I know that Vista is probably going to be released in 6 or 7 different flavours depending on features, hardware specs, etc. but they are essentially the same operating system.

This is in contrast to the different versions of Linux (I think), which all have different themes and ways of actually running or am I wrong and once you master the one version you can then use the knowledge that you have learnt to try on another version?

[Redhat]

Curly,

And linux distros are essentially the same operating system too :) The reason for there being many versions is to give some choice, but I agree that to some degree this can be confusing for someone new to linux.

I always found it quite nice to try out new distros, see what is different about them :)

[Gagaman]

What is/was your biggest fear of trying Linux out?

I tried a suse and a mandrake version of linux in the past.

My biggest fear was that I had to use'special' linux commands to get it working.

Was it confirmed? How?

Actually, I was pleasantly surprised with the first look at the linux versions I tried. They had a windowslookalike interface.

But when I wanted to add new hardware or install new software... woops... that wasn't easy. I never was able to connect the internet using my adsl modem for instance...

I remember also having difficultys with my graphic card, found a kind of solution on a forum, but wasn't able to configure the card correctly because off the 'difficult' explanation on the forum;

What could be implimented to make the experience more enjoyable/usable?

More hardware support. No command promp alike commands

I like to try out linux again....

I have some old pc's gathering dust here... Would it be possible to install a linux version on a PII with a 6 gieg HD. If so, witch distro would be the best for it?

[CurlyWhirly]

And linux distros are essentially the same operating system too. The reason for there being many versions is to give some choice, but I agree that to some degree this can be confusing for someone new to linux.

I always found it quite nice to try out new distros, see what is different about them.

Thanks Redhat, apart from the confusion with all the versions available I have also seen these threads:

http://forums.neoplanet.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=20682

http://forums.neoplanet.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=20681

http://forums.neoplanet.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=20733

They don't exactly inspire confidence especially as I have only had a PC for a few years now and never got to use MS-DOS which I assume is a similar environment to using Linux with command prompts?

By reading the above threads, I am under the impresion that the Linspire version is particularly difficult to master for newbies.

I would, perhaps, try Linux out if I knew that if I couldn't get it working properly, I could easily get back to my present Windows XP installation but am not sure if it is possible as I only have the one hard drive and I don't suppose a dual boot is possible with both XP and a Linux variant?

I really don't know much about Linux at all to be honest :unsure:

[Alan2273]

CurlyWhirly, yes you can dual boot XP & Linux but if you only have one hard drive you would be better trying out a live CD/DVD as when I first tried to dual boot on one hard drive I wiped Windows out twice.

Now I do not use Windows that often, mainly for games and my scanner is not supported, but everything else works great.

By using a live CD/DVD you can explore Linux without trashing Windows.

[dadyassa]

Scuse the intrusion but it sounds interesting Alan, where are these cd/dvd`s available from ?

[expertec]

...MS-DOS which I assume is a similar environment to using Linux with command prompts?

Very little... now Linux is mainly GUI based like windows... command lines only have to be used some of the time for installing software and things.

Not all software has to be installed via command line though! There are many with a graphical installer that's as easy as windows.

Like Alan says, try it with a live CD... experience it without any risk to your existing setup. :)

Scuse the intrusion but it sounds interesting Alan, where are these cd/dvd`s available from ?

Knoppix is one of the most well known live CD distros, but most HDD based ones are available in a live CD version as well.

I'm going to try out the Ubuntu live version... available here I think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCD