LONDON TERROR ATTACK

[madboy33]

well i was driving past kings cross when the bomb went off

It was absolute mayhem

Luckily i was driving and got out of the area fast

These people are not politically motivated they are just COWARDS

[Hurdy]

These people are not politically motivated they are just COWARDS

What would their motives be then?

[deuces wild]

These people are not politically motivated they are just COWARDS

What would their motives be then?

Religion.

[Tankus]

Revenge...?

[CurlyWhirly]

Whatever the circumstances, terrorism is not the answer.

There is no excuse for the taking of innocent people's lives :angry:

[deuces wild]

Revenge...?

Nope. Religion.

If it were political (revenge( there would be no attacks when liberals and leftists were in office.

How many attacks occured during Clintons presidency?

How may occured in France while Chirac has been in office?

Political? Nope.

The terrorists want to eliminate all of western culture and take over the world...and for religious reasons.

[CurlyWhirly]

The terrorists want to eliminate all of western culture and take over the world...and for religious reasons.

Very true.

Also your country has had to suffer the 9/11 atrocity and the terrorists were to blame here as well.

[lester1]

All this clap trap about Blair and Bush does my head in.

This attack was carried out by a group of fanatics that have no other way to glorify there cause, what ever it may be. This kind of mindless killing has been a fact of life for decades and is not a result of the current political leadership.

Have we forgotten the Black September attacks or the IRA and others, what about the Munich Olympic atrocities?. Blair and Bush had no influence then.

These morons have no influence on the people they think they represent and resort to indiscriminate attacks to capture world attention.

Lets hope that the bas**d* are found quickly.

[andsome]

All this clap trap about Blair and Bush does my head in.

This attack was carried out by a group of fanatics that have no other way to glorify there cause, what ever it may be. This kind of mindless killing has been a fact of life for decades and is not a result of the current political leadership.

Have we forgotten the Black September attacks or the IRA and others, what about the Munich Olympic atrocities?. Blair and Bush had no influence then.

These morons have no influence on the people they think they represent and resort to indiscriminate attacks to capture world attention.

Lets hope that the bas**d* are found quickly.

I agree 100%. I have no time at all for B'liar and Bush, but this mindlessness has nothing to do with them. After the end of the Taliban and Saddam, Afghanistan and Iraq should now have everything going for them, and the ordinary people in both countries only want to rebuild, and get on with their lives. This aim is being thwarted by religious fanatics, whose only aim is to create Islamic fundamentalist states. They have a bigoted belief that they are doing their Gods work in their mindless acts. The same applies of course though to a lesser degree with Christian fundamentalists. Look at the troubles in Ireland. Anywhere that religion rears its ugly head, there is trouble. It is possible to believe in your God, as I have said in many occasions, without men in funny frocks, smocks, hats and beards etc. Why the hell can't people just get on with their own lives, and practise their own beliefs in their own homes, and leave others to their beliefs.

[Guest be@vis]

Unless you can actually place Bush or Blair, at the head of an army, in Jerusalem in 1099 then I think the person you should blame, as the architect of the problem, is Pope Urban II who, in 1095, launched the First Crusade, because yesterday was just the latest manifestation of a hostility which was born then. A simplistic view? Possibly...but no more simplistic than blaming Bush, or Blair, for all the ills of the world and, as to getting there through " spin, nepotism, graft, deceit, working the system etc", with very few exceptions, don't they all?

[deuces wild]

Todays editorial in our local paper regarding yesterday's bombings in London:

In the course of an hour yesterday morning, terrorist bombers cut a path of shattered bodies across one of the world's great cities. Horrible scenes of pain and destruction played again and again on televisions throughout the Western world as its leaders, gathered for an economic summit, expressed sympathy and outrage for those so pointlessly, yet so grievously, harmed.

But if the murderers thought the four bombs that killed and maimed so many innocent commuters would shatter the spirit of a people as well, then they are as ignorant of history as they are of all other aspects of civilization.

Sixty-five years ago, other madmen thought to crush the indomitable spirits of the parents and grandparents of yesterday's victims. For two months, a nightly barrage of bombs set the city aflame. And each morning, the survivors would crawl out of the wreckage to put out the fires and carry on.

They lived to see their tormentors consigned to perdition.

Full editorial at http://tinyurl.com/ddsvn

(If the link asks for a 'zip code' just enter any 5 digits.)

[catgate]

Revenge...?

Nope. Religion.

The terrorists want to eliminate all of western culture and take over the world...and for religious reasons.

D.W. If I reply to this quote will you please not remove your reply immediately, as you did yesterday?

Politics and religion are both the same thing under different names. The purpose of both is to gain power, in order to control the population for the benefit of the leaders (whether political or religious) and their backers. If you could bare to risk having your firmly held hypnotism broken, a good read into the history of the development of the various religions would show you how the rulers invented religion for the sole purpose of controlling their subjects and giving themselves more "divine" authority.

Recently, Jewish archaeologists and scholars have discovered that Abraham, Noah, Moses, David and most of the other characters never existed.(prog. on TV recently) They have discovered that these imaginary characters and Joveh (Jehovah) were a creation of (I think from memory) Josiah, who was a small time king who wanted to make it big, and so invented a "history" of the Jewish people (something like Hitler tried to do with his Thule myth). In it he included all the old tales, the ten commandments, the flight from Egypt, "all this land I shall give thee. etc" and all the tales about Joveh telling his chosen people to go out and slaughter, rape, pillage. (Yes it is all there in the old testament). This history and myth was built upon by the Jewish "High Priests” and resulted in what we see today as Judaism.

Eventually Christianity emerged out of this hotch potch, and it was soon seized upon by some of the rulers of the time, to the west of Palestine, as a way of making themselves more divinely powerful, and many more additions were made to the myths. A new carrot of "salvation" emerged as did the stick of "damnation and hellfire". Both inventions of the new Christian High Priests (who were Emperor/Popes). There was subsequently much falling out and struggling for power, and ultimately we ended up with Roman Catholicism, Greek Orthodoxy, Russian Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, wherein the Church and Ruler were mutually supporting (often in the same body). The Ruler appointed the High Priests and the High Priests anointed/crowned the Ruler.

Out of Christianity arose Islam. Which was a yet another version of “The Truth”.

The message is always the same, be it politics or religion. “If you do as we tell you to do you will have salvation/ free teeth/ a generous pension/ bread and circuses/ freedom from piles/ etc. but if you do not do as we say you will rot in hell/ be cast into prison/ have all you money taken away/ have your eyes poked out.” You are also told that you can not understand what it is all about, because it is way above your level of understanding, so the best thing to do is trust us, have faith, because we have a direct line to all knowledge. You are told that to steal/kill/cheat and lie are unforgivable sins, but those who tell you this indulge in them constantly, and, if caught in the act say it is in the interest of the faith/state etc. You are told that it is better for your salvation etc. etc. to be meek and humble and not to question things. In fact if you suggest the world is not flat you might not survive.

The politicians/leaders down the ages were just as devious and two faced as they are today, but because the church held the population in check they were not obliged to use spin and lies as much as they do today.

In the post you deleted you claimed I had written “over a thousand words”. The exact number was 302. To save you having to count this lot I will inform you that my Word “word count” tells me there are 772.

You also suggested I should pray. Can you tell me to whom or to what I should pray? Should I pray to the non-existent god of mercy who allows some of the creatures he has “created in his own image” to kill others of a similar origin? Or the god that has allowed his “chosen people” to be kicked out of the land he “promised” them, scattered to the four corners of the earth and there allowed them to be murdered in their thousands? Or the god who has Christian leaders to incite others into destroying non-christians in order to make them change their ways.? Or even the god who for centuries allowed Muslim leaders to encourage their followers to destroy non-muslims in order to make them change their ways?

[deuces wild]

Revenge...?

Nope. Religion.

The terrorists want to eliminate all of western culture and take over the world...and for religious reasons.

D.W. If I reply to this quote will you please not remove your reply immediately, as you did yesterday?

Catgate, there is a reason for the delete button and I opted for it rather than to keep a post on the board that was not in the best of taste. Why do you have a problem with that? Was it better that I leave something up that was perhaps not appropriate?

BTW:

1. The post I deleted asked where your concerns were or prayer for the victims in your posts to this thread totaling almost 1,000 words as the only thing I read from you was anti Bush and anti Blair rhetoric, certainly not appropriate after this tragic event.

2. Politics and religion are hardly the same thing in todays world.

Chill and enjoy your evening Catgate.

[Tankus]

Politics and religion are hardly the same thing in todays world.

theocracy......? secular governments....?

Isn't thats what the fear of the US is ....( the new commies ..reds under the beds .?..or in this case..... Burkahs )

[deuces wild]

Politics and religion are hardly the same thing in todays world.

theocracy......? secular governments....?

Isn't thats what the fear of the US is ....( the new commies ..reds under the beds .?..or in this case..... Burkahs )

Nope.

And the concern (not fear) of the world now is that we need to provide enough resources to fight and eliminate the terrorist.....and to carry on despite their inhumane acts.

BTW: The US has no fear of terrorists. We are going after them in every way we can, as demonstrated since 2001.

A country like France, on the other hand, fell to their knees after their attack just prior to their election.

The world hopes (and expects) the UK to respond to these terrorist bombings in London the way they always have....bring it on and we will hunt you down and defeat you.

The terrorist made a big mistake with their attack on London. They have caused the world to finally unite.

Just watch.

[Tankus]

A country like France, on the other hand, fell to their knees after their attack just prior to their election.

uh...?

French have been dealing with terrorists for years ...they're pretty good at it (nasty dose of the Angolans )They will play rough if the national interest is threatened

The world hopes (and expects) the UK to respond to these terrorist bombings in London the way they always have....bring it on and we will hunt you down and defeat you.

Well If it means that we will treat them like the IRA ...It means that we let them out of jail , without even a bullet being handed over ...

The ability is still there ....but were let down by the quality of out political competence

[Hurdy]

Plus the IRA had tacit US backing....

[deuces wild]

Plus the IRA had tacit US backing....

And plenty of UKand international backing also. ...but not from the right sources.

Neither the British government, the US government nor the greater populus of those Countries condones the IRA or it's activities...and the funding does not come from them or legitimate sources either.

So what is your point Hurdy....that the US and UK governments and general populus are supporting the IRA?

If so, could you provide some proof to this? :Cool Surprised:

[andsome]

I have not delved into this as deeply as some, but I do know that collections for the IRA have long been not only permitted but encouraged in Americas cities. Also a good many US politicians over the years have been very sympathetic, and have actually met with their representatives. Until only recently Gerry Adams was always a very welcome guest in the USA.

[Belatucadrus]

A country like France, on the other hand, fell to their knees after their attack just prior to their election.

Much as I dislike Chirac, I suspect the event you're referring to is the Madrid bombing and the Spanish electorate partly changed governments because they tried to blame Basque separatists rather than Al Quada. l think they made the wrong decision, but whether they would have reached the same conclusion if the government hadn't lied to them is another question all together.

[Thos]

During travels in the USA before 9/11, I have been asked many times why the British were oppressing the Irish and not handing back the North to the Irish people. There seemed to be no real understanding of the situation. A great deal of misplaced sympathy was generated by the visits of Sinn Fein leaders fund raising among the many people with Irish ancestry there.

I think that Bill Clinton, for all his faults, came to really understand the problems and worked hard to bring the republican movement in Ireland away from the military solution and back to the table.

Now, I sense, the American people are foremost in their understanding of the horrors of indiscriminate terrorism.

This thread originally talked of the bombings in London on Thursday. My son works about 400 yards away from Aldgate and had just got into his office when the bomb exploded. Let no-one tell me that there is any justification, Blair & Bush hatred or not, for attempting and succeeding to kill innocent family members going about their normal life.

Thos.

[catgate]

During travels in the USA before 9/11, I have been asked many times why the British were oppressing the Irish and not handing back the North to the Irish people. There seemed to be no real understanding of the situation. A great deal of misplaced sympathy was generated by the visits of Sinn Fein leaders fund raising among the many people with Irish ancestry there.

There is an awful lot of nonsense talked about Ireland. If you really want to know what the origins of the problem are, you should read a serious, unbiased, factual history of the country. Find out what actually happened there. You will find out that, once more, it was the combination of the two sides of the same coin, religion/politics, which caused the trouble and has continued to do so. Because of the vested interests north and south of the border, spin, half truths, lies, misrepresentation etc have for hundreds of years, painted a picture that is totally wrong. The English did to the Irish what the Angles, Saxons and Normans previously did to the Britons before it became Engleland. The difference was that the Angles, Saxons and Normans did not play the religion card.

The English treated the Irish abominably...but it was the English of generations ago and the Irish of generations ago. Since then the flames have been kept alight by the clergy/politicians of the south preaching any sort of old rubbish they could, to ensure the thing was not brought to an end, and the clergy/politicians of the north preaching the opposite (whatever it happened to be). It was also not helped by the fact that, due to political and religiious machinachions, there were an awful lot of people in Ireland with a lot of time on their hands, due to the lack of employment.

I do not condone terrorism and have nothing but contempt for them, but I can understand how the world has got into the situation where there appears, for some people, to be no other way to achieve their aims, which generally is not unreasonable.

[Thos]

Catgate.

I wouldn't wish to quarrel with your comment about the origins of the "troubles". Indeed my grandfather brought his family from Co. Mayo to escape the poverty and hunger following the potato famine. But I do believe that expressing "understanding" of the reasons for terrorist actions is insensitive at the moment. Your view is clearly different.

Thos

[deuces wild]

A country like France, on the other hand, fell to their knees after their attack just prior to their election.

Much as I dislike Chirac, I suspect the event you're referring to is the Madrid bombing and the Spanish electorate partly changed governments because they tried to blame Basque separatists rather than Al Quada. l think they made the wrong decision, but whether they would have reached the same conclusion if the government hadn't lied to them is another question all together.

You are correct. My bad.

.....but I can understand how the world has got into the situation where there appears, for some people, to be no other way to achieve their aims, which generally is not unreasonable.

Huh? The aims (goals) of the terrorists are not unreasonable?

Did I misunderstand you or is that what you really said?

[pwp]

unfortunately one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

and so it goes on.